EPIPHANY! A New Take on the Major Arcana

dangerdork said:

crystal clear, Emma! are you a teacher? you have a knack for it

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No I am not, and yes I know, but too late now

if I understand something sufficiently I do my best to describe it as simply and understandably as possible, thank you and take care x

So, what we've got is (I hope rodney comes back. I think he would be interested) that the cards most likely came from this....
xx-xx-03-06-09-12-15-18-21
00-xx-02-05-08-11-14-17-20
xx-xx-01-04-07-10-13-16-19

And each row is a different path of life, as well as either cardinal, fixed, or mutable.
bottom-the worlds response to you
middle-your response to the world
top-you and the world together
And the fool is the person.

Each column is a step in the way of a path, a planet, and an element. Every path has seven steps:
origin/decision-inspiration-power-turning point-transformation-epiphany-success/destiny.
Every part of the tarot deck is devidable by seven, because it is made of different kinds of paths that we go through in life. the major arcana is about the paths of our relationship with the world, and there also and active an passive path in every suit. The oroigin is who we are or start as, and the goal is what we are trying to become. In the four suits, the origin is one of the first tow court cards, and the goal is one of the ruling cards.
Active: knight-2-4-6-8-10-king
Passiveage-1-3-5-7-9-queen

In our world, we use the 4 element system for astrology, so with the cardinal, fixed, and mutable aligning with the first 4 elements or steps, the first twelve cards of the major arcana represent the zodiac signs.

There are so many sevens of everything. There also so many threes, and also four is an important number. However, what we don't realise is taht, really, seven is actually an extension iof four, or rather, four is a part of seven, and in this world, we only recognise four, but there is seven, and we must finish the fourth step before moving on.

Diod I miss anything?

Oh also, I found this: http://www.tarotforum.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=4418747

The seven weeks of buddhas meditation.
In the first, he starts his journey.
In the second, he parises the bodhi tree and it serves as a kind of friend through his journey.
In the third, he proves spiritual power, by creating a golden bridge which he walked up and down on.
In the fourth, he shined rays of all his chakras
In the fifth, he was tested. But this is what fascinates me. In the fifth, he was encountered by the daughters of a demon (or the buddhist devil) that corrupts people, and his daughters are desire, ignorance, and aversion. IN transformation for the mystic, the card is THE DEVIL.
In the sixth, he reveals or realises the core truths of his teachings.
In the seventh, he becomes the holy buddha, who now understands the world, nad passes his knowledge off to the first followers.

Deleted (got wrong end of the stick)

1:1 Correspondences

SO, still puzzling over astrological correspondences, I thought I'd peek into my excellent new book ("Holistic Tarot" by Benebell Wen - very highly recommended) and see what I could find. In appendix B, I discovered a chart that provides 1:1 correspondences for each sign of the zodiac and each of the Planetary designations (Eight planets excluding Earth, plus the Sun and Moon. ) This totals Twenty two (21 Majors plus The Fool). I find this very satisfying.

As referenced by Wen, this system was originally published in 1930 by A.E. Thierens in "The General Book of the Tarot" - and you can find the entire text online at: http://sacred-texts.com/tarot/gbt/index.htm.

Thierens states in the first chapter: " As far as we know the idea of analogy with the zodiacal mysteries has, until now, found no further practical realisation than a rather diffuse comparison of the four 'colours' or suits in the Lesser Arcana with the Four Elements in the Cosmos, as we find them in astrology."

Somehow, over the years, I have seen astrological correspondences for Majors, but I never got the memo that they could all be mapped out so neatly.

Here, then, are the 22 correspondences described:

0) The Fool: Uranus
1) The Magician: Mercury
2) The High Priestess: The Moon
3) The Empress: Venus
4) The Emperor: Aries
5) The Hierophant: Taurus
6) The Lovers: Gemini
7) The Chariot: Cancer
8) Strength: Leo
9) The Hermit: Virgo
10) Wheel of Fortune: Jupiter
11) Justice: Libra
12) The Hanged Man: Neptune
13) Death: Scorpio
14) Temperance: Saggitarius
15) The Devil: Capricorn
16) The Tower: Mars
17) The Star: Aquarius
18) Pisces: The Moon
19) The Sun: The Sun
20) Judgment: Pluto
21) The World: Saturn

Now, I don't know much about astrology, but a number of these jumped out at me: Empress=Venus, Strength=Leo, Justice=Libra, Death, Tower, Star... ALL pretty obvious to me. I'm sure many people reading know all this, but I didn't.

Now, when I look at the seven stations grid, the elemental correspondences for the cards don't seem to line up all that well (I may describe the patterns I DO see a little later).

However, at least on the surface, the Cardinal/Fixed/Mutable lens looks like it's starting to line up nicely, at least starting at Key 4 The Emperor. I need to chart the rest of this out, too.

Lucas Prince of Cats said:

Did I miss anything?

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One thing I'd like to note is that the whole Seven Stations perspective started out as a thought experiment. It's not set in stone, and I don't own it. My original question was always, "What was the reasoning behind the order that the trumps are placed in? Does it correspond to some ancient mystery religion or esoteric school of thought?" I simply formulated, "discovered" if you want to be generous, that there do seem to be some universal principles of the human condition, and some historical symbolism, that lines up rather neatly with this set of images.

If anybody uses this way of thinking to enhance their own exploration of the many schools of esoteric thought, then I think I've done my job.

Lucas Prince of Cats said:

So, what we've got is (I hope rodney comes back. I think he would be interested) that the cards most likely came from this....
xx-xx-03-06-09-12-15-18-21
00-xx-02-05-08-11-14-17-20
xx-xx-01-04-07-10-13-16-19

And each row is a different path of life, as well as either cardinal, fixed, or mutable.
bottom-the worlds response to you
middle-your response to the world
top-you and the world together
And the fool is the person.

Click to expand...

I find myself assuming that cardinal-fixed-mutable will happen in that order, but not seeing it fit the three rows neatly.

bottom-the worlds response to you

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feels like cardinal, yes, but

middle-your response to the world

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feels more mutable and

top-you and the world together

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feels more fixed.
(I'm using my intuitive feel for the qualities.)
I'd have to go through card by card to be sure what I think.

Looking at them (the three qualities) as a circle/cycle rather than a line/progression, this would make them circle in the other direction - anti-clockwise if you like.
This rings a bell, I feel there's something somewhere in some tradition about things cycling the "other" way...? Apart from sinister implications that some put on it, I mean. Not sure if it even matters.

dangerdork said:

Now, I don't know much about astrology, but a number of these jumped out at me: Empress=Venus, Strength=Leo, Justice=Libra, Death, Tower, Star... ALL pretty obvious to me. I'm sure many people reading know all this, but I didn't.

Click to expand...

I believe there are alternative mappings of the signs and planets to the Majors - I don't know much about them because I haven't been drawn to this side of the tarot. In particular I have trouble with Cancer for the Chariot and in some ways I think the Devil is more, or at least equally, Pluto as he is Capricorn. (Pluto is the god of the Underworld, after all, and all about wealth - and about possessiveness, control. Others have gone into different systems of correspondences in far more depth.)

dangerdork said:

Now, when I look at the seven stations grid, the elemental correspondences for the cards don't seem to line up all that well (I may describe the patterns I DO see a little later).

However, at least on the surface, the Cardinal/Fixed/Mutable lens looks like it's starting to line up nicely, at least starting at Key 4 The Emperor. I need to chart the rest of this out, too.

Click to expand...

A good word, 'lens' - thank you, in fact! I needed it for all sorts of times I defend my way of describing life and the world. 'Metaphor' doesn't always do the job.

dangerdork said:

One thing I'd like to note is that the whole Seven Stations perspective started out as a thought experiment. It's not set in stone, and I don't own it.

Click to expand...

I love the way you are not-owning this whole thing, very much a group thinking exercise and pooling people's knowledge of various fields etc. Takes it much further than one mind could on its own. I'm not sure I'd be so generous if I'd had the Brilliant Idea in the first place. And yes, definitely it's enhancing my understanding and interest!

Seven stations and Easter Philosophy

I'm still re-examining the original perspective, and I think between the Astrological correspondences and the Chakras, what's resonating most for me are the Chakras. They almost make me want to re-title the stations, or at least adjust the perspective to further reflect these phases:

# / Station / Chakra / Function / Element

1 | Origin | Root | Grounding/Security | Earth
2 | Inspiration | Sacral | Relationships/Emotions | Water
3 | Power | Navel | Energy/Vitality | Fire
4 | Turning Point | Heart | Balance/Love | Air
5 | Transformation | Throat | Communication/Healing | Ether
6 | Epiphany | Third Eye | Intuition/Understanding | Light
7 | Destiny | Crown | Enlightenment/Transcendence | Thought

(Adapted from: https://traminperth.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/chakra-chart-1.jpg and others)

This is really working for me. I think I may back off astrology a bit and instead chase the rabbit down the trail of Eastern thought. I really love how well this group of seven fits with Lucas' post about the Buddha's meditation, and further with Vedic principles of "Seven Stages of Life:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_stages_(Yogi) , "of Knowledge:" http://www.arhantayoga.org/seven-stages-of-knowledge/ , etc.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I wonder if indeed it's these older, Eastern principles of esoteric thought that trickled down into the tarot from antiquity, rather than the Western, Hellenic school of thought - or if perhaps the tarot is some Medieval mashup of both.

dangerdork said:

I'm still re-examining the original perspective, and I think between the Astrological correspondences and the Chakras, what's resonating most for me are the Chakras. They almost make me want to re-title the stations, or at least adjust the perspective to further reflect these phases:

# / Station / Chakra / Function / Element

1 | Origin | Root | Grounding/Security | Earth
2 | Inspiration | Sacral | Relationships/Emotions | Water
3 | Power | Navel | Energy/Vitality | Fire
4 | Turning Point | Heart | Balance/Love | Air
5 | Transformation | Throat | Communication/Healing | Ether
6 | Epiphany | Third Eye | Intuition/Understanding | Light
7 | Destiny | Crown | Enlightenment/Transcendence | Thought

(Adapted from: https://traminperth.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/chakra-chart-1.jpg and others)

This is really working for me. I think I may back off astrology a bit and instead chase the rabbit down the trail of Eastern thought. I really love how well this group of seven fits with Lucas' post about the Buddha's meditation, and further with Vedic principles of "Seven Stages of Life:" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_stages_(Yogi) , "of Knowledge:" http://www.arhantayoga.org/seven-stages-of-knowledge/ , etc.

Click to expand...

Yes! Yes! Yes!

dangerdork said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I wonder if indeed it's these older, Eastern principles of esoteric thought that trickled down into the tarot from antiquity, rather than the Western, Hellenic school of thought - or if perhaps the tarot is some Medieval mashup of both.

Click to expand...

I'm inclined to think that they all have a common "ancestor" - what really is. (Which each school of thought has discovered, probably helped along by learning what had been thought and postulated before, but derived primarily from the real thing rather than purely from the earlier school(s) of thought.) One can be aware of the chakras, for example, without knowing that anyone in any century has ever taught about them.

The Triads

Let's go back to the triads again. I've been trying to fit the round peg in the square hole and make each set of three fit the Cardinal/Fixed/Mutable lens, and getting bogged down.

In re-meditating on our triads, at first I was drawn to the yin/yang nature that seemed to be presented on the first and second Paths - The Magician / Priestess, Emperor / Hierophant, Chariot / Strength all seem to be either nicely complementary or in dynamic opposition within the same realm. Trying to fit all three, though, I got a bit hung up until I twisted its tail and got this.

(I've enclosed the matrix with this post to help with the visual.)

For each Triad,

"#2 STANDS BETWEEN #1 and #3."

It works even better if you use a more descriptive phrase for the third path, and short phrases for the first and second.

For Instance -

"Wisdom STANDS BETWEEN ability and creation;" "Social mores STAND BETWEEN personal Ambition and life choices," "Determination STANDS BETWEEN action and the acquisition of knowledge," "Karma STANDS BETWEEN Chance and New Perspectives..."

With a little meditation, this formula works for me with every triad all the way down the line. Maybe there's still hope for Cardinal/Fixed/Mutable, but in the mean time this seems to click right into place.

Now, let's combine my previous two posts, and we get:

1. "Origin: In the realm of Grounding and Security, Wisdom stands between ability and creation."

2. "Inspiration: In the realm of Relationships and Emotions, Social mores stand between personal ambition and life choices."

3. "Power: In the realm of Energy and Vitality, Determination stands between action and the acquisition of knowledge."

4. "The Turning Point: In the Realm of Love and Balance, Karma stands between Chance and New Perspectives."

5. "Transformation: In the Realm of Communication and Healing, Harmony stands between Physical Transformation and Confronting Temptation."

6. "Epiphany: In the Realm of Understanding, Hope stands between Upheaval and the Unknown."

7. "Destiny: In the realm of Transcendence, Revelation stands between Illumination and Nirvana."