The Book of the Law Study Group 2.38

ravenest

Really

Gosh! When did OTO make Crowley's writing an optional extra? I tried to find a reference for that but couldnt.

Well, I wouldnt say that was the case. OTO has a long history of being a kinda eclectic repositry (check the 'Secret Conference' stuff). Also the only thing the OTO will insist on in an OTO group is that the specific OTO mysteries and buisness is operated as it wants.

If you want to practice your own traditions as well, the OTO doesnt say "You cant do that / we dont do that." In this regard it is very liberal. Its up to groups and individuals what they want to do. Some might not like that. But I think its better to have a bit of diversity in unity. And whats the dif anyway if they are all going along the same initiatory current?

I myself ran up against this in the OTO many years ago. The thinly veiled snicker because some of the OTO worked with the local pagans at times.

But we put on enjoyable, effective and fantastic rituals performed with joy and beauty when we got it together (a LOT better than any of the traditionalist snickerers :laugh:

)

Aeon418

ravenest said:
Gosh! When did OTO make Crowley's writing an optional extra? I tried to find a reference for that but couldnt.

Really? You yourself commented on this and I posted the old, and now withdrawn, OTO study guide.

Under the current OTO leadership there are no requirements to study anything. It's all optional. So is it any wonder that people avoid the difficult and challenging Crowley writings and fill the gap with something else. Something easier and more soothing, like Wicca, paganism, or even Maat magick!!!

Doesn't it sound crazy to you that the leadership of the worlds biggest Thelemic organisation doesn't do much to encourage it's members to study the core Thelemic texts? Instead it's left up individual OTO lodges to do what they want. Doesn't it strike you as comical that many OTO iniates know more about other traditions than they do their own? Now that's a real joke.

ravenest

Aeon418 said:
Really? You yourself commented on this and I posted the old, and now withdrawn, OTO study guide.

Now I'm confused. The old OTO study guides were Crowley's writings? Things like The III degree guide where you make it up yourself ???? Do something that goes beyond your own life time??? That's Crowleys writings? I believe that is the reason they were withdrawn, other's advice and NOT Crowleys. But if you want to see it the other way :shrug:

Aeon418 said:
Under the current OTO leadership there are no requirements to study anything. It's all optional.

But the whole thing is optional, joining is optional, progression in the Order is optional - one can stay a Minerval for life if one wants. How can anyone force another to progress. Its up to the individual, study and follow the OTO curricuculum, or dont, its your gain or loss.

Aeon418 said:
So is it any wonder that people avoid the difficult and challenging Crowley writings and fill the gap with something else. Something easier and more soothing, like Wicca, paganism, or even Maat magick!!!

Hmmm, seems like you are adding your own STUFF there; People dont AVOID the Crowley writings for paganism, etc, they can do both. I'm sure you yourself have other interests in the field of magic/k that arent strictly Thelemic?

Aeon418 said:
Doesn't it sound crazy to you that the leadership of the worlds biggest Thelemic organisation doesn't do much to encourage it's members to study the core Thelemic texts?

It would if thats what was going on. But I dont see he is doing that. There is a very clear OTO curriculum written in Liber Abba (and the leadership spent a lot of time and effort to get it up) where some of the most difficult Crowleys writings are reccommended (Oh, also a whole lot of other supplimentary reading material, as there is in the AA curriculum, but that doesnt mean we are suggested to study that and avoid Crowleys writing.)

Aeon418 said:
Instead it's left up individual OTO lodges to do what they want. Doesn't it strike you as comical that many OTO iniates know more about other traditions than they do their own?

AS I said, each Lodge is given relative free range to work how they will, if there wasnt some type of direction already established they wouldnt have been made a Lodge in the first place. And I know of at least one clear example in the past where a Lodge was shut down because they were going so far off the OTO path into other mysteries that there didnt seem to be a point of them being OTO anymore.

And no, it doesnt strike me as comical. When people start off in a tradition I assume they will bring other knowledge and perspective into a group and I welcome it! Who wants a group where everyone thinks from the same perspective - not me. It is also natural that as one progresses in a tradition then they will come to a greater understanding and focus OF THAT tradition, as they go along they come to know more about their tradition. I dont see anything comical about that process at all.

Of course, you may be talking about people of a higher (numerical) degree, or a long time in the Order, that dont seem to know their own tradition and thats your experience. I havent had that experience. the people I have met in the Order like that have been a wealth of knowledge about their tradition.

Also I dont know who these Thelemic experts about the OTO tradition are, the ones that are not in the Order, again, just my experience, I havent run into them .... although I've met a few who are not members of OTO, claim to know a lot about OTO, yet seem to understand little of the Order.

Aeon418 said:
Now that's a real joke.

Depends on your sense of humor I guess.