Thoth Nine of Disks - whose effigies are stamped on the six coins?

Rusty Neon said:

Although Gerd Ziegler's book _Mirror of the Soul_ is an intuitive approach to the Thoth deck and is by no means authoritative on what Crowley and/or Harris had in mind, I thought that, purely for the sake of fun, I'd look up what Ziegler has to say on effigies in the Thoth 9 of Disks.

pages 173 and 174:

"In this painting, Frieda Harris portrayed the three-way relationship between herself, Crowley, and his friend Israel Regardie. The six planet figures bear their three faces."

... "Crowley's face appears on Saturn and Jupiter."

... "Regardie's head appears on Mars and Mercury ...."

... "Harris painted her own face on the Moon and Venus."

I wonder where Ziegler came up with this explanation. Certainly nothing in the Harris exhibit write-up on the 9 of Disks [see my post below] suggests this.

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Rusty that is absolutely fascinating. You know, I just had a feeling there was something like this going on! We'll have to contact Mr. Ziegler and ask him where he got this. Wow. This is fun.

Rusty Neon said:

I wonder where Ziegler came up with this explanation. Certainly nothing in the Harris exhibit write-up on the 9 of Disks [see my post below] suggests this.

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It certainly shows the pitfalls of passing off 'intuition' as fact.

It would be nice to know why he chose Israel Regardie to join Crowley and Harris... why not Orson Welles?

I think he would make a great third man.


Vincent

Vincent that was a fascinating explanation of where the magical images came from. I had no idea. Thank you.

I guess if it is true what Ziegler said, well, it is a might be a little of both Crowely's and Harris's images!

Vincent said:

It would be nice to know why he chose Israel Regardie to join Crowley and Harris... why not Orson Welles?

I think he would make a great third man.

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That's pretty funny. I am sometimes reminded of Orson Welles when seeing pictures of Crowley.

Lord of Material Gain (original title)

Lon Duquette's commentary is fun.

(Venus in Virgo) 10 degrees to 20 degrees Virgo-September 2-11. Golden Dawn Model: From clouds at the bottom of the card, a hand appears holding a rose branch with nine white roses, each of which touches a disk. The disks are arranged thus:

--0---0--
--0---0--
----0----
--0---0--
--0---0--

Princess scale for Yesod: citrine, flecked azure
The four scales for Venus: emerald green; sky blue; early spring green; bright rose or cerise, rayed pale green.

The four scales for Virgo: green (yellowish); slate grey; green grey; plum color.

Formula: 9 (Yesod) of Disks (Assiah) + Venus in Virgo = Gain
------------------------------------------------------------------
"....Six small coins stamped with remarkably detailed and imaginative personifications of the planets, surround a large unmarked solar orb that is interlaced with two companion disks of the same size. Few cards of the Thoth
Tarot bear less resemblance to Crowley's depiction in the Book of Thoth than this one. I have to conclude that his words were part of his original instructions to Harris and not an account of the finished product.
Be that as it may, the Nine of Disks is a balanced and beautiful interpretation of what most people on this planet think of as good luck. Crowley even uses the words "good luck" twice in his comments..."

Lon Duquette
Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Duquette
page 269

Hope this adds to the discussion...

Regards,

Cerulean

Thank you, Cerulean.

I found it interesting that Crowley wrote the coins "may" have magical planetary images -- as if he hadn't seen the card yet, and was writing what it might have on it later... LOL.

wow, that is really fascinating. And here I'd been thinking those were astro glyphs warped into faces just for the heck of it

Actually, I once had a dream w/Crowley - I called him Mr. Hitchcock...

U.k

The Nine of Disks arranged in Three Groups,

The upper Group the element of Fire - idealistic striving for financial Gain.

The middle Group the element of Earth - actualizations of one's creativity in profits and success in Gains.

The lower Group the element of Water - profound spirtual experience and trust in one's own instints for friendship Gains.

isthmus nekoi said:

Hi firemaiden, you're on the right track w/the moon. The rest of the coins also encorporate astrological glyphs.

Moving clockwise from the moon:
mercury
mars
saturn
jupiter
venus

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My thanks to Roseanne who made an observation I had not noticed before. The six coins and the solar circle with two interlaced spheres forms the image of a lions head, so we have a planetary image for the Sun too.

Kwaw

Rusty Neon said:

purely for the sake of fun, I'd look up what Ziegler has to say on effigies in the Thoth 9 of Disks.
pages 173 and 174:
"In this painting, Frieda Harris portrayed the three-way relationship between herself, Crowley, and his friend Israel Regardie. The six planet figures bear their three faces."

... "Crowley's face appears on Saturn and Jupiter."

... "Regardie's head appears on Mars and Mercury ...."

... "Harris painted her own face on the Moon and Venus."

I wonder where Ziegler came up with this explanation.

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As with a good part of the text in Ziegler's book, this story comes from classes with Angeles Arrien back in the mid-70s. I have this story, word-for-word, in my handwritten notes from her class in 1977. A couple of people audio taped and then transcribed the text. Hummmm . . . Ziegler's book came out in English in 1986. I can match dozens of passages of original stories from Angie that I've heard no where else.

Mary