"Can you give me some numbers...

I don't know how to express this any more clearly:

Debra said:

The woman who owns the shop never pushes me or the other readers to sell their stuff, and she and her daughters discourage people from overspending. She believes in karma and so do I.

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Debra said:

I told her she could use any candle she has at home or the shop has some inexpensive ones

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Debra said:

The shop owner has NOT NEVER EVER said or implied that I should "push" their spiritual supplies, teas, herbs, etc. Never, ever. She'd be appalled at the thought.

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Apollonia, the idea of millions of lottery losers cursing...that's interesting. When your gain is their loss...I wonder if lottery losers really see it that way. I'm not a gambler by nature; I told the client that the odds are against winning so I see it as "odds," rather than "someone else beat the system."

SunChariot, I appreciate what you're saying, thank you. I did tell her that tarot isn't good for such things and that I don't know of ANY divination method that produces lucky numbers. I think she found some comfort in the reading and I hope she finds her inner strength as she faces a very trying set of circumstances.

debra - I am interested in this, and the note to stay on topic reminds me that most days I am OT.....

What do you want us to carry on discussing ? Because I had felt we had got into what could empower her (as candles well might) - but is that OT for you ? Are we only discussing what you should do when faced with such a question ?

In which case - I suppose the only TAROT answer would be to tell her to pull cards and use the numbers from them. NOT very helpful and certainly not empowering.... As you know, I'm not into tarot for prediction anyway, so it wouldn't seem an appropriate use for it in any event.... even if it were possible !

gregory said:

Are we only discussing what you should do when faced with such a question ?

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Baroli's suggestion that lighting a candle is like a childish superstition seems more like a topic for the Spirituality forum, where there's much interesting discussion of techniques for personal development.

So that's the basis for my request.

I am hoping this thread stays in the general neighborhood of how readers deal with requests for "lucky numbers" and the like.

I'd just suggest using their birthdate or a combination of family birthdates or special occasions. Tarot can't be used for this sort of thing. Not to my knowledge or in my experience, anyway.

Debra said:

Baroli's suggestion that lighting a candle is like a childish superstition seems more like a topic for the Spirituality forum, where there's much interesting discussion of techniques for personal development.

So that's the basis for my request.

I am hoping this thread stays in the general neighborhood of how readers deal with requests for "lucky numbers" and the like.

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Oh - OK.

Well in that case - Tarot is - for me - as much about empowering as about anything. I am not into prediction with it; I don't find I can be that exact, nor do I expect it to be exact about me. So I would have to say that tarot cannot do that (as you did....)

I would maybe suggest a reading on what can be done to help with the financial situation - things that are maybe being overlooked ?

And sure - I might well suggest trying anything that would help the sitter calm down about it all and look at alternatives (I am assuming we are not reading for a serial gambler, in which case even to engage in talking about it would almost be collusion. Bath oils. Aromatherapy. Pricey. Hm - well, why not candles. They are cheap, and they often make me feel better !

Seriously - I think the question was handled as well as it could be. If someone really is that needy - a harmless straw is just that - harmless - and it might be far more than a straw for them, - because of the caring that went into offering it.

Fascinating thread

SunChariot said:

Luckily I have not yet heard that question. But if I did, I would stop and explain to the person that Tarot does not work in that way. That is is a spiritual tool to better our lives, and to help us grow inside.

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Although I'd be likely to say the same thing, sitting here at my computer where I have time to think (and I'm not just being argumentative), I wonder, are we sure Tarot doesn't work that way? I mean, has anyone ever experimented?

I'm in a state where we have a state lottery that's supposed to help support our school system. I have known people who bought $1 lottery tickets twice a week -- for years on end. So I'm wondering now whether it's worth an experiment. I have a Fournier Egyptian deck that's numbered consecutively from 1 to 78. I think (it's been a long time) that the lotto numbers go up to 64. I'm just wondering if it would be worth an experiment.

Trouble is, I'm not a gambler, at all. I have trouble parting with even a dollar in an exercise that I consider basically flushing it down the toilet. That's just me. I have gambled, but never considered it fun, just stressful. Too many years short on money, I guess.

I'm just saying though -- do we know it doesn't work?

I'm of two or three minds on this issue. First I think that if a customer is paying, we should make some reasonable effort to give them what they're asking for. It's been discussed before -- at least once in regard to romance readings -- that the person just wants a reading.

Second, I tend to think that someone in this particular sitter's position is probably feeling very desperate to gain some sense of control over her own life. For that reason, I like the answer of showing her some candles. I think that prayer and burning an abundance candle could very well be the start of self-empowerment. So I like that.

Third, I wonder if it might be a good idea to suggest a reading on how she can best take control of her life again -- in a general way, not necessarily financially. It all starts inside her, after all, not with any amount of money. People on welfare sometimes win lotteries -- and wind up back on welfare within a few years, because they haven't solved their real problems.

So I think I'd be tempted to do all three -- and tell her that it's all for the same usual price, so she feels that she's getting a bonus and maybe that will help her feel lucky again:

1) Offer to let her use my consecutively numbered deck and draw her own set of numbers (with a warning that there's no guarantee).
2) Suggest the abundance candle.
3) Read for her on how to take charge of her life.

That way I've still given her what she asked for, and maybe I've actually helped.

And I'm still wondering about the experiment....

Nevada said:

Second, I tend to think that someone in this particular sitter's position is probably feeling very desperate to gain some sense of control over her own life. For that reason, I like the answer of showing her some candles. I think that prayer and burning an abundance candle could very well be the start of self-empowerment. So I like that.

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Me, too. I think maybe I'd give her the candle for free and pay for it myself later.

People on welfare sometimes win lotteries -- and wind up back on welfare within a few years, because they haven't solved their real problems.

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People who have never been on welfare in their lives also win lotteries and end up broke again. I've seen a couple of items on TV featuring that.

Grizabella said:

People who have never been on welfare in their lives also win lotteries and end up broke again. I've seen a couple of items on TV featuring that.

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Oh yeah! Spending is a habit easy to start. Once you do start, if you have the attitude that you have a bottomless source of funds, well, that could disappear very fast. I'm sure that's how people get in so much trouble with credit cards, they don't think about the endless monthly payments they're setting themselves up for. They just think "I'll worry about that later."

Interesting. Myself, when they ask for numbers and won't accept that I don't do numbers, I reel off some numbers (which oddly enough, don't win) and they never ask me for numbers again. Works like a charm, every time.

Lighting a candle to focus intention works better than me and anything involving numbers. People believe what people believe. Baroli apparently believes that using a device -- such as a candle-- as a focus doesn't work, and is a rip off. OK. She can believe that. To my eyes, the logic is right up there with babies drinking milk as the root of drug addition. So if you get started on a 3 for $1.00 candle, in no time at all it'll be $500. candles, to achieve the same effect, or lack of one. Maybe Baroli's clients would go that route, in which case her concern is very legitimate. Mine wouldn't. They've got better sense even if they do want Numbers, LOL

Nevada said:

I have a Fournier Egyptian deck that's numbered consecutively from 1 to 78. I think (it's been a long time) that the lotto numbers go up to 64. I'm just wondering if it would be worth an experiment.

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It is my feeling that any numbers you draw would be *less* likely to come out than before you draw them, because they have already come out once ...

This is why I object to those little toys with the round beads that you shake into the holes.