The Icky Green Deck- Not so icky!

I don't think you're right on one thing Lillie - mine was printed in the US and I am SURE it is the first, 1969 one - it has black writing on the front. AND it was definitely bought in the early 70s.

Scans are tricky for colour - look how green my new one looked on e-bay !!! Maybe if we met (you in Northumberland any time soon ?) we could compare in the flesh ! I think Jeannette is probably right, too - as she has copies of most of them about her person !

Lillie said:

In my Weiser deck, the centre part of the 4 swords and the 6 discs is very faded in a weird way. Only the centre, they are OK around the edges.

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My 6 discs is a bit faded - I'd say more in the middle (vertically), but the 4 Swords is ok. A few others, on the other hand, and now that you mention it....

Well, I'm only going on what I was told here on AT.

The three 'versions' certainly exist, as various people told about theirs.
I have also seen them all come and go on Ebay.

But the dating of them, that's a bit difficult.
But I think someone found a quote saying that the first colour edition of the Thoth (not the Sangraal one) was done in 69 in Hong Kong.
So I assumed that the HK printing was the earliest of the three.
But of course that was just an assumption.
All three versions appear to be pretty much identical, and were all out at roughly the same time.
The main difference is the writing on the side of the box, and the gold writing on what I think is the HK version.
Unless I had all three, and was convinced the correct cards were in the correct boxes, I couldn't say more about the similarities/differences.

I don't think anyone else reported the faded effect on the 4 swords, though others had similar on the 6 discs.
Rusty Neon also had a sort of double exposure efect on the back of one card. No one else seemed to have had that.

Anyhow, it seems they are all pretty much of a muchness.

What I think is a terrible shame is that the nice, bright cards have the nasty backs.

I'd like some bright ones, just to see, but I hate those backs.
I suppose I could trim them...

Lillie said:

The main difference is the writing on the side of the box, and the gold writing on what I think is the HK version.
<snip>

I'd like some bright ones, just to see, but I hate those backs.
I suppose I could trim them...

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Mine definitely has black writing.... and was bought way early.

I do think Jeannette is a likely authority here, being as she has them all in the one place.

You know - if you trimmed off the BORDERS on the front - the ones on the back would go too as they are narrower...!

Yes, That would be why trimming them would be good.
But what I have always wondered is would I loose any of the cross?
I know I would if I trimmed a normal deck, but I'm not sure about one of them modern ones.

As for the old OTO ones.
Yes, the thing is I wanted to find out about them, so I was getting people to tell me about theirs, which is how I found out about the two types of Llewellyn. But no one could ever tell me about dates for them. As there are no dates on them.
I have a vague memory of something saying that the HK one was first, but unless I can find the quote I can't be sure if I remember it right.
Now, as you keep records of your decks, and you got your weiser one in 69 (is that right?) then it gives a very early date for these being on sale.

I had wanted to make a list of all editions of the thoth, but I got confused with all the later ones, and forign ones, and small ones, and the mirror of the soul book sets etc.
So I lost track of it all.

If you or Jeanette (or anyone else) ever find out for sure the printing history of these different types of the early ones, and why they were different (like why has mine not got a publisher on it, only a distributor?) and when each was on sale, it would be really interesting to know.

Lillie said:

Yes, That would be why trimming them would be good.
But what I have always wondered is would I loose any of the cross?

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No- you would not lose the cross on a large deck- at least not the US Games (AG Mueller) version.

I haven't cut one (yet) but I can verify that if I don't cut into the painting, I won't cut into the cross either.

-tb

A Garden of Thoths

Well, ever since gregory wrote to me a couple of days ago, my head has been swimming with Thoth decks. When Lori and I originally started Tarot Garden, I felt very strongly at the time that I didn't want to get bogged down in documenting the minutiae of different editions of the same deck.

But, throw up enough deck scans on the internet, and I've found you end up getting a ton of emails asking questions about exactly that -- minutiae. So much for my "strong stance."

So, after checking up on those Thoth editions in order to answer gregory's question, I figured now was as good a time as any for "brain dumping" that info onto the Tarot Garden website. Originally, I had made one entry for the Thoth deck, with the scans being taken from my personal copy of the Thoth that had been purchased in the 1980s. It turned out to be the 3-language edition of the USG "White Box C" Thoth, and at the time, I didn't worry about how it compared to more current editions (Tarot Garden was founded in 2001). But once we started taking on the USG product line, and then adding the AGM Swiss Thoth, and the different sizes, well... I had to start documenting those, so the customers who were buying the decks knew what they were getting. From time-to-time, I updated my original listing a bit, but in the end, that listing was essentially incorrect. I had (back in 2001) assumed that the "large" USG edition was more-or-less the same as it had been in the 80s, but of course, we all know now that that's not true. In fact, of all the decks I have around here to scan, the current "large" edition of the USG Thoth is the one I don't have available, having sent (if I remember correctly) the Tarot Garden library copy to Dan some time back. And as we're down to our last inventory copy of that edition at the moment, I'm not exactly inclined to remove it from inventory and open it without a reorder being a bit closer on the horizon.

Anyway, I've made several changes and additions to the Thoth listings in the Tarot Garden database over the last few hours, to hopefully reflect more accurately which edition is which. Furthermore, I've put together a "Thoth comparison table," which I've now posted in the Tarot Garden "Library" section at this link:

http://www.tarotgarden.com/library/decks/thothtable.php

The table is as accurate as I can make it at the moment; it includes links to our sample database scans for all editions except the current USG "Green Box" one. I won't be able to get that scanned until I get that title reordered, or unless Dan temporarily returns the Library copy to me. When that happens, however, I'll make another set of scans doing a side-by-side comparison of one card from all editions.

To Lillie: The copy of the Llewellyn Thoth in the Tarot Garden library shows the "fading" you described on both the Four of Swords and the Six of Pentacles, and on several other cards as well. In general, the print quality of the editions issued prior to the U.S. Games "Green Box" edition seems to be substandard or "inaccurate," although I personall don't find the "green cast" of the USG "White Box C" editions to be as off-putting as some folks obviously do.

If anyone finds errors or glaring omissions in my table, feel free to PM me or send me an email at my Tarot Garden address. The table is as accurate as I can make it, given the information I have at hand, but I don't feel confident in saying that it's error-free.

-- Jeannette
The Tarot Garden

Oh hum whee.

Well - no, Lillie - I bought mine in the early 70s - but that still rules out it being a 1977 print. My greeny has no details at all attached, but it IS a nice wooden box ! And I like the colour actually !

Has anyone seen the new Urania one ? It may fill all our needs.... I want to see the backs ! (there is a thread about it...)

My good prints are Muller, in blue boxes........ (one large, one "pocket size" - that's SOME pocket, but...) - I don't have a USG one. Are Muller identical - I think so..... And BTW mine say on the boxes 1986, if anyone wishes to know this !

U.k

That's what i would like to see the front and back border's to the new Urania edition Thoth. I wonder if the new card backs are without those white Border's and front Border's unornamented like the very first Thoth editions.

Addendum

Thanks to similia, I now have correct sample scans for the gray-border, green box USG edition in the Tarot Garden database.

-- Jeannette
The Tarot Garden

Similia - just looked at the scans of yours Jeannette posted. Are your borders really that cream coloured ?