Darkness and dark decks

mmmhhh... but If I read correctly what I written in the first post, there should be a difference between different types of "dark decks".
- decks that uses a "dark" language to portray meanings.
- decks that ask a person to mirror with the darkness within.
- decks that do both.

The language used (wheter it is "dark" or "cute") influences the way we read with it, or - at the minimum - the way we communicate the reading to the Querient.
The concept of exploring one's own darkness is more challanging, and something to be done carefully. Yet I like the idea of a Tarot tool that may be efficient in that direction.

As for dark urges go... it is not just the unknown.
Have you ever felt the desire to hurt someone? I did.
Have you ever felt the desire to destroy and mar something beautiful? I did.
Have you ever felt the desidere to feel pain, and to be miserable? I did.
It's part of me.
I don't think one should see darkness into the cards of a "dark deck". The question is, if you want to see that part of yourself into a Tarot experience, what do you do?
Are there dcks or techniques that work better than others?

And still there is simbly a "dark" mood, that allows you to see things froma certain perspective. It's the same as a "warm" deck, a "cold" deck, a "lugh" deck, etc... And they work differently, even their substance is the same, because the way you express something is part of that something.

ric

RiccardoLS said:

The question is, if you want to see that part of yourself into a Tarot experience, what do you do?
Are there decks or techniques that work better than others?

And still there is simply a "dark" mood, that allows you to see things from a certain perspective. It's the same as a "warm" deck, a "cold" deck, a "lugh" deck, etc... And they work differently, even their substance is the same, because the way you express something is part of that something.

ric

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YES ! And different decks serve the purpose for different people. I don't find the Dark Grimoire that dark. (Or, indeed the Baphomet or the Savage.) But I have got very dark readings from cheerful decks, so I'm not sure it is even possible to design a deck to fill that purpose anyway....

well

gregory

darkness aside, and the idea that we all need darkness..

it is up to us as the reader to tell the truth of the moment and for some that truth is darkness ,, the hiding of the light or the dark of the night for the soul..
but that dark night is just an illusion til the soul awakens.

but til then, we do need readings that will could help us avoid harm, avoid future bad marriages, avoid wrong career choices.
and we do need readings that helpus correct the wrong choices we have made in the past.

and so
i wouldn't say YES , CAN I GET AN AMEN,
not 100 percent.

for i personally believe that it is possible to design a deck with such evil intention (notice i said evil intentions and not evil influences) that anyone who reads with it will find it hard to have good readings of cheer.
many back then thought it was crowley deck for example but after much study (just reading some books here and there and reading with it, no actual study of research).
i decided crowley had good intentions making the deck and of course so did lady frieda.
so in that case it was a case of new knowledge,new imagery clouded by a person bad reputuation.

And I do not think we will see a deck made by lo scarabo or us games, or llewyln that will have that evil intentions in the design, imagery of the deck, or such to the degree i am talking about.

what would those intentions be ? well pretty dark I would tell you, that all who looked at it would feel those intentions jumping off the deck.

I don't know that anyone is suggesting creating a deck in order to draw out dark forces as such, or with "evil intentions". Nor did I say - I think - that we need to do that. But I do think we need to look at the darker side of things as well as the light. And I think no one deck will ever help any of us to do that. I have got very dark readings from Kitty Kahane. Not what anyone could call a dark deck, I think.

gregory said:

I don't know that anyone is suggesting creating a deck in order to draw out dark forces as such, or with "evil intentions". Nor did I say - I think - that we need to do that. But I do think we need to look at the darker side of things as well as the light.

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That wasn't what I got out of this thread either. Getting in touch with and acknowledging one's shadows in some way doesn't mean acting on them, and there are different definitions of "darkness" and "shadow" too. Not all are evil, in fact I think few are, though many are difficult to face or incorporate into our lives in comfortable ways. To me darkness is often synonymous with unconscious. I'm looking at this from a more Jungian view, I suppose. I figure that not knowing about my inner workings is more risky and dangerous than knowing. It's the unconscious motivations we deny or are unaware of that are most likely to sneak up on us and cause problems. So for me it's a matter of knowing the enemy, and being aware that the enemy will often turn out to be me -- my fears, my projections, my compulsions and unconscious motivations. That doesn't mean if I shed light on them I must act on them, only that it's better to know about them.

Nevada

gregory said:

I don't know that anyone is suggesting creating a deck in order to draw out dark forces as such, .

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nor did i say that as well.
"it is possible to design a deck with such evil intention (notice i said evil intentions and not evil influences) that anyone who reads with it will find it hard to have good readings of cheer"

that is what i said,, evil influences would be dark forces.

for darkness and dark decks, there must be one person among the 7 billion who made a dark deck of evil intentions..
which mean they put everything in their warped mind into it.

and so with that in mind,, we haven't truly seen a dark deck with darkness.

Would it be possible to create a deck, with the darkest of intentions, disguised in bright, cheery images? A wolf in sheep's clothings?

Ultimately, I think, like magick (or whatever name you wish to call it) is a neutral force of energy. Art, music, science.. all can be used for for both "good" and "evil" intentions. Tarot is no different. The tool is static, the user is not.

If the deck is dark; it may be due to the projection of the creator that is captured by the reader; it may be due to the intrinsic nature of the reader, reading dark/light messages based on what they see before them as with the Rorschach inkblot test.

So while the creator may have specific intentions in the creation of their deck, the reader is the other half that gives the deck its power; light or dark.

It is akin to saying happy pictures bear no shadows; yet Hansel and Gretel is one such fairy-tale. Is cannibalism quite alright as long as its the "good guys" roasting the "bad guys"? How about we change the names from Hansel and Gretel to... say...Samara and Damien?

Who is the greater evil then, the witch for trying to destroy the children of the corn or the children born with the taint of "evil" in their blood.... but wait... evil too is a word that describes a concept that is both abstract and ageless. Subjective, like art, darkness, light, good, bad, right, wrong.. So round and round we go the mulberry bush.

To me, dark decks are just reflections of reality as the artist perceives it; like light decks. The other side of the coin but the same coin nonetheless.

Can an artist encompass all of the universe in one picture or one deck; when noone I know of has complete access to the secrets of the universe? Perhaps such a person exists; perhaps this person is/not a tarot creator.


Ash

hmm

""Would it be possible to create a deck, with the darkest of intentions, disguised in bright, cheery images? A wolf in sheep's clothings?"'

a deck like that would be dark intention but also with influence or some sort of force to it..
example every reading done with it turns out for the worse..
but now we are falling into tarot myth i think.

HOLMES said:

a deck like that would be dark intention but also with influence or some sort of force to it..
example every reading done with it turns out for the worse..

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True

HOLMES said:

but now we are falling into tarot myth i think.

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And myths have a little bit of truth woven into them, to me at least. Perhaps embellished to make them a little bit more exciting. Ever watched Big Fish by Tim Burton?

Back to the topic though, I can't speak for other creators, only for myself.

I felt both disturbed and disappointed when my creation was labeled as a "goth" deck. A little insulted too, I might add because in reality I am not a "goth" or a "dark, evil" person.

But I am inclined to fall into depressive moods, its genetically inherited so the black dog howls perpetually in the distance. Does that make me seek out darkness? No, I think it seeks me out because it is in my genes.

Do dark thoughts invade when I do not want them? Yes, all the time. Does that mean I indulge in depression? I wonder who does? But I think you need to walk the road to know how isolating it feels, how haunting, how frightening and when the mist lifts; life is good once more... sweeter than I remember it to be.

Intense experiences; how does one describe the taste of coffee to someone who has never felt the flavor of it burst upon the tongue. What I draw are glimpses of a journey that I am sure I do not walk alone. Its a beaten path merely seen through my eyes.

We may all stand before the Tower of Babylon. Do we see the same thing? Yes, perhaps. Do we all relate to the experience the same way? I think not; I think we would all be taking different pictures and those pictures would reflect our individuality. Each deck reflects the creators individuality; as to the intentions behind them... I feel that at best, its our personal speculation of the person.

Ash

sacredashes said:

True
But I am inclined to fall into depressive moods, its genetically inherited so the black dog howls perpetually in the distance. Does that make me seek out darkness? No, I think it seeks me out because it is in my genes.

Do dark thoughts invade when I do not want them? Yes, all the time. Does that mean I indulge in depression? I wonder who does? But I think you need to walk the road to know how isolating it feels, how haunting, how frightening and when the mist lifts; life is good once more... sweeter than I remember it to be.

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That's a very good point about depression. And one thing you do learn during a major episode is that you have to face it. I have coped 100% better since I was finally shown how to do that in hospital. And yes - when I am well, now that I have done that, it makes life a whole lot sweeter.