Different Disks

I was just noticing on the Three of Disks that the Disks are actually wheels. And on the Four they are basically pillars (aren't they?) On most of the other minors, symbols that represent the elements are fairly similar, or are at least quite obviously depicting a sword, wand or cup. But the disks... I don't know, maybe it's just me... but they all seem to be quite different. Any thoughts as to why? The nine and ten are gold coins so perhaps it's some kind of material progression? Except that the Ace is the shiniest of all. Hmmm...?

The one I've noticed is the four. All I can figure is Crowley wasn't as concerned about the shape or appearance of the symbol as what it represents.

I think also the earth suit is more "real world", while the other suits are more conceptual. The swords can be swords on the cards, as they aren't a real depiction of anything, but they are a pure symbol. Disks however are a depiction of "earth energy" and that is also a touchable realworld thing, at least more so than the other suits. So it can be represented by a greater variety of real world things. Crowley changed his cards from Coins/Pentacles to Disks, as the Disks are a wider representation of earth, so I think that would fit in well with his intent.

I'd not noticed that difference in the suits before mooiedragon, its quite interesting.

mooiedragon said:

On most of the other minors, symbols that represent the elements are fairly similar, or are at least quite obviously depicting a sword, wand or cup. But the disks... I don't know, maybe it's just me... but they all seem to be quite different.

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I agree with similia. The difference between the depiction of the Disks is due to the availability of "real world", physical manifestations of the energies of the cards. So a solid, four-sqaure tower is a good representation of the 4 of Disks. While meshed gear wheels is very apt for the 5. And flowers (or fruit?) on a plant, is just right for the 8.

I would argue that this apparent change from card to card is visible in all the suits. It just seems to be more pronounced in the suit of Disks. An exception to the rule would be something like the 8 of Wands, where the wands have become bolts of electricity.

Eh!?

Abrac said:

The one I've noticed is the four. All I can figure is Crowley wasn't as concerned about the shape or appearance of the symbol as what it represents.

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I thought it was the reverse, he deliberatly made them different to express the different ideas in this card. I'm finding this thread a little confusing; are not ALL the other suits like this, are not the wands showing different type according to function ... look how many different swords there are ... also the cups ... I thought it was pretty obvious that they were all different - from card to card and also within the same card at times (and one of the things that first attracted me to the design and artwork of this deck)?

ravenest said:

I thought it was the reverse, he deliberatly made them different to express the different ideas in this card.

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That's what I was trying to say though not very eloquently. He wanted the appearance to express the idea rather than forcing a round shape even though a square would do better.

ravenest said:

are not ALL the other suits like this, are not the wands showing different type according to function ... look how many different swords there are ... also the cups ...

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Yes, I think a bit part of the appeal of the Thoth deck, compared to the other "similar" decks (various golden dawn, and other non-scenic pips) is that each pip although not scenic, is very definately illustrated, and shows the idea of the card by modifying the suit emblem and its surrounds. But to me the variation seems to go much further in the Disks than the other suits.

All the Swords and Cups are different, related to the meanings of that card, but they are all definately still Swords or Cups. The Wands (with the exception of the 8) are all definately wands. The Disks however are sometimes Disks, but sometimes wheels, and sometimes towers, and sometimes flowers and sometimes coins, and sometimes cogs, and sometimes ying/yang symbols. The variation seems much greater in that suit. In fact looking at the cards now, the Ace, the Six and the Nine seem most "disky", the middle pillar pips. The 10 is very "Coin-y" (as is the 7, a flaw in my idea ) and the others are more varied (the left or right pillar pips).

It seems an ever stronger variance, if you think of the 2 and 3 of Disks as both being Supernal's and above the abyss. As such you'd expect them to be closer to the idealised suit emblem, which they are not. In the other suits, the only major variation seems to be the 8 of Wands, quite a way down the tree, and the variation is mostly astrological I'd thought which is apparently more important at that level.

I wonder if this is a conscious decision that Crowley/Harris made, or a happy accident?

similia said:

Yes, I think a bit part of the appeal of the Thoth deck, compared to the other "similar" decks (various golden dawn, and other non-scenic pips) is that each pip although not scenic, is very definately illustrated, and shows the idea of the card by modifying the suit emblem and its surrounds.

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I completely agree. Although sometimes I feel that some of the symbolism slips below the radar. For example the cups used to illustarte the suit of Cups. Are they all just random cups, chosen for artistic reasons? What about the 5 of Cups and the use of the Golden Dawn, Cup of the Stolistes. A cup used for holding the water of purification. In the context of the card it is highly significant.

similia said:

All the Swords and Cups are different, related to the meanings of that card, but they are all definately still Swords or Cups. The Wands (with the exception of the 8) are all definately wands. The Disks however are sometimes Disks, but sometimes wheels, and sometimes towers, and sometimes flowers and sometimes coins, and sometimes cogs, and sometimes ying/yang symbols. The variation seems much greater in that suit. In fact looking at the cards now, the Ace, the Six and the Nine seem most "disky", the middle pillar pips. The 10 is very "Coin-y" (as is the 7, a flaw in my idea ) and the others are more varied (the left or right pillar pips).

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Aha! Now I get it ... thanx.