L. Ron Hubbard

There's no evidence that I'm aware of that the two actually met, but Crowley was aware of Hubbard and I suspect there was more of an involvement than we currently have proof of. Eventually Crowley developed ill will toward both Parsons and Hubbard; he probably saw them as threats to his own authority, at least that's how it looks to me.

Abrac said:

There's no evidence that I'm aware of that the two actually met

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That's because they never did. Crowley never even met Jack Parsons. For several years before AC's death there were plans for him to move out to California. But, for one reason or another, it never happened.

Abrac said:

but Crowley was aware of Hubbard and I suspect there was more of an involvement than we currently have proof of.

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Keep on fishing...

Abrac said:

Crowley obviously didn't think very highly of either Parsons or Hubbard; he probably saw them as threats to his own authority, at least that's how it looks to me.

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Unfounded speculation.

Crowley had high hopes for Parsons. That's why he positioned him as leader of Agape Lodge. He thought Parsons was a man with potential.

Aeon418 said:

Crowley had high hopes for Parsons. That's why he positioned him as leader of Agape Lodge. He thought Parsons was a man with potential.

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So Crowley thought Parsons a man with potential- sight unseen and communication not had? How far sighted is that into someone's potential.
~Rosanne
To put it clearly...From what did he judge potential- Hearsay?

Rosanne said:

So Crowley thought Parsons a man with potential- sight unseen and communication not had? How far sighted is that into someone's potential.
~Rosanne

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I think you may be stretching a little Rosanne. Its not likely a problem with Crowley's foresight so much as a necessary result of the limited options for communication and world travel available to a broke old man in the 40's Its not like he could hop on a plane, or even the phone really.

If you're trying to spread ideas across an ocean in the 40's, I think you might be fairly limited as to how many people you know on the other side of that ocean that write good letters... A rocket scientist doesn't seem like a bad pick in that light.

So I take it he picked Parsons as a potential leader of Agape Lodge without any communication- just because he was a rocket scientist? Like I would pick.... Obama as leader of my Equality Group - a dream think tank leader?
~Rosanne

Rosanne said:

So I take it he picked Parsons as a potential leader of Agape Lodge without any communication- just because he was a rocket scientist? Like I would pick.... Obama as leader of my Equality Group - a dream think tank leader?
~Rosanne

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I don't think its fair to say "without any communication". There is obviously a substantial amount of letter writing, the main form of communication available at the time, and I assume some friends in common or other method of initial introduction (though not in person obviously).

I don't know enough about Parsons to make any judgement on him myself, but I've heard very educated people praise him highly as a scientist (for which he is renowned) and as a magician (though Aeon obviously disagrees with that assessment). I just don't think its reasonable to expect a greater amount of interaction with Crowley than what was possible given the realities of technology and distance in the 40s.

Shooting from the hip...

Rosanne said:

So Crowley thought Parsons a man with potential

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You're obviously unaware that Parsons did have contact with at least three people that Crowley knew.

1) Grady McMurtry, the future Caliph of OTO after Crowley's death. He met with Crowley numerous times during WWII.

2) Jane Wolfe, the Hollywood movie actress who gave up her career to learn magick and yoga from Crowley during the Chefalu period. She kept up a constant correspondence with Crowley until he died.

3) The former Agape Lodge master, Wilfred Talbot Smith, who initiated Parsons into the OTO. Although Smith only met Crowley once, they maintained a 20 year correspondence.

"Freedom is a Two-Edged Sword" may have influenced Crowley in Parsons' favor -- it certainly espouses many of Crowley's own ideas, albeit in a veiled way. Among all crackpot lit, this is certainly one essay worth reading (I can't say the same for S.C.U.M Manifesto, but to each his/her own).

The best biography of Parsons is "Sex and Rockets" by John Carter. The author understands the occult subjects described in the book, and the Hubbard incident fills two whole chapters.

The other biography of Parsons, "Strange Angel" is not as good, especially in the way it sidesteps Hubbard -- the author was obviously quite conscious of the Cult of Scientology's litigiousness and seems to be avoiding a lolsuit whenever L Ron is mentioned.

Greg Stanton said:

"Freedom is a Two-Edged Sword" may have influenced Crowley in Parsons' favor -- it certainly espouses many of Crowley's own ideas, albeit in a veiled way.

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Is there any eveidence that Crowley actually read "Freedom is a Two-Edged Sword". AFAIK it wasn't written until '46.

I seem to remember seeing Crowley's comments on one of Parsons "witchcraft" essays. But he was hardly complimentary.

Aeon418 said:

Is there any eveidence that Crowley actually read "Freedom is a Two-Edged Sword". AFAIK it wasn't written until '46.

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Not to my knowledge, but Jack freely circulated his stuff among friends. FIATES was published c.1946, but it was written earlier, and circulated like his other stuff. I know he sent Crowley some of his writings, on a fairly regualr basis (it's mentioned in the Bios), but I can't say if FIATES was among these.

Aeon418 said:

I seem to remember seeing Crowley's comments on one of Parsons "witchcraft" essays. But he was hardly complimentary.

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I'd love to read what Crowley had to say. Parsons was definitely out there -- hence my description of FIATES as "crackpot lit".