lupus3
Does anybody know whether there is a Marseille-style tarot with illustrated minor arcana?
Thank you very much
Thank you very much
Marseille-style tarot with illustrated minor arcana?
Sophie
Hello Lupus, welcome to AT!
There has only just been a thread on this topic! If you use the search function - or just look down a page or two, you'll find it.
The conclusion, of course, is that if it is scenic (because Marseille is illustrated, of course!), then it is not Marseille....
But there are decks based on the general system of the Marseille, which have characters on the minors: Le Tarot du Chat and Le Tarot du Chien spring to mind.
The Kazanlar Tarot, which is very beautiful, follows the Marseille in some of its imagery & system, but not all - the RWS has also influenced it.
The problem with scenic minors is that they go against the very spirit of the Marseille, which is to give as much freedom as possible to the reader interpreting the card, through the contemplation of an abstract illustration, and not orient him/her in a certain way by using an image. So you can't really have a Marseille with scenic minors, because the moment you add characters & a scene to the minors, you are already making something else, removing some of the freedom, and adding a visual concrete hook to what is by its nature, abstract.
There has only just been a thread on this topic! If you use the search function - or just look down a page or two, you'll find it.
The conclusion, of course, is that if it is scenic (because Marseille is illustrated, of course!), then it is not Marseille....
But there are decks based on the general system of the Marseille, which have characters on the minors: Le Tarot du Chat and Le Tarot du Chien spring to mind.
The Kazanlar Tarot, which is very beautiful, follows the Marseille in some of its imagery & system, but not all - the RWS has also influenced it.
The problem with scenic minors is that they go against the very spirit of the Marseille, which is to give as much freedom as possible to the reader interpreting the card, through the contemplation of an abstract illustration, and not orient him/her in a certain way by using an image. So you can't really have a Marseille with scenic minors, because the moment you add characters & a scene to the minors, you are already making something else, removing some of the freedom, and adding a visual concrete hook to what is by its nature, abstract.
Kissa
i'd say the old english.
the labyrinth tarot is imo also strongly influenced by marseilles type.
marseilles purists though will tell you a pure marseilles deck does not have scenic pips and that's it.
i probably should have started by this question: what is it you call a marseilles type deck? justice 8 and strength 11, death card unnamed, three lovers with an angel, two children on the sun card etc.? or are you just referring to marseilles type graphics, a bit naive, medieval style?
kissa
the labyrinth tarot is imo also strongly influenced by marseilles type.
marseilles purists though will tell you a pure marseilles deck does not have scenic pips and that's it.
i probably should have started by this question: what is it you call a marseilles type deck? justice 8 and strength 11, death card unnamed, three lovers with an angel, two children on the sun card etc.? or are you just referring to marseilles type graphics, a bit naive, medieval style?
kissa
Sophie
I don't think one has to be a purist to think that the moment you add imagery to an abstraction, you are changing the very character of that abstraction. In effect - you no longer have an abstraction. It touches the very difference between figurative & abstract art - and the different parts of the brain these invoke. So though there might be some beautiful scenic interpretations of what the Marseille minors abstraction means to you, to me or to the Old English creator, they are just that - an interpretation, a translation if you wish.Kissa said:
I am not of those who think traddutore tradditore (a translator is a traitor), still, what you have when you interpret an abstraction in a figurative way is as personal and different from the original as when you translate a Finnish poem into French.
coredil
Helvetica said:
OK I try, this a very wellknown and short poem (without title) from the wellknown finnish poet: Poetifinnuk
"runo"
French translation:
"poème"
Sorry, I could not resist, I am probably in a too good mood this morning
Sophie
LOL, Coredil. You've just proved my point. Say "runo" and "poème" out loud...sound very different, don't they?
But I am glad you posted! Now I know a Finnish poem in Finnish!!
But I am glad you posted! Now I know a Finnish poem in Finnish!!
lupus3
Thanks to all of you for your replies!
The reason I ask for a Marseille deck with figurely illustrated minors is that I am readin in "Meditations on the Tarot" by Valentin Tomberg, which is an excellent book on wisdom. He uses TDM; so I would like to buy one with these pictures of the Majors, but I would prefer one with figurely illustrated minors, because I am used to it, and I am not a purist.
The reason I ask for a Marseille deck with figurely illustrated minors is that I am readin in "Meditations on the Tarot" by Valentin Tomberg, which is an excellent book on wisdom. He uses TDM; so I would like to buy one with these pictures of the Majors, but I would prefer one with figurely illustrated minors, because I am used to it, and I am not a purist.
Sophie
Why don't you just buy a Majors-only Marseille, since Meditations only discusses the Majors? That way you can look at the actual images being discussed by Tomberg. You don't need the pips at all
lupus3
Could you tell me some Majors-only Marseille decks? pleas?
TheOld
there's a lot of marseille deck but if you want to go with book like this one i suggest "L'ancien Tarot de marseille" Grimaud edition, the colors are following the "tradition" you found in this book and the clean line make it excellent for meditation
Love,Light & Power
Omeada
Love,Light & Power
Omeada
