New approach to the 2 of Swords

In a thread I began about the 8 of Swords, I was asking Aeclectians if and how they compared this card to the 2 of Swords at all, among other ideas. A whole lot came up about the 2 of Swords that I would like to have a chance to explore more in depth.

To begin with, the 2 progresses from the Ace. So we have the new idea, new insight, new vision, new awareness of one's surroundings and power of the mind from the Ace polarizing in the 2. Does this mean the "new way of thinking" is being compared to the "old way of thinking?"

Is there hesitation in this card as the woman weighs the new with the old and tries to come to a decision between the two?

How much denial is implied? Is she trying to ignore that the two ideas are mutually exclusive? Or are they? At what price is she balancing these two situations.

How much compromise is there? How much stress or tension?

On the other hand, how much is she simply trying to remain objective while in the midst of two opposing forces?

And how much of it is making lemonade when life hands you lemons? Working with what you've got. Transforming one situation into another.

the woman in the 2 of swords (i use cosmic deck) to me looks troubled. i see her mentally struggling to reach some kind of comprimise - so that her life can be a little smoother. but this card does NOT mean a problem solved. she wants to bury her head in the sand - but she is strong - and she directs her mental energies into giving the situation a temporary fix.

Wow, good questions. It's interesting that you mention that the ace "polarizes" because in this card that second option actually seems to polarize more than the Ace--keeps our woman immobile. The Ace is focused and moving forward, the 2 is not--she's seated and going nowhere because she has to keep those swords balanced.

Originally posted by Belladonna Does this mean the "new way of thinking" is being compared to the "old way of thinking?"

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I think, more to the point, that it means an opposite idea or argument. Which may certainly be "new" but can also just be contrary. Anti-thesis to thesis. So, someone says, "I've this great idea! Let's do this!" (Ace) and immediately someone else pops up to say, "That's a terrible idea! We shouldn't do that!" New or not new, we know that this second idea runs counter to the first and results in those crossed swords.

Is there hesitation in this card as the woman weighs the new with the old and tries to come to a decision between the two?

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I've never felt that she's trying to decide between the two, so much as make peace between them. She has a strong resemblence to Blind Justice. Whenever I see this card, the one thing that pops to mind is a mother with two kids. And they're screaming "Is!" and "Is not!" at each other. In comes Mom and kid #1 shouts, "Mom, tell him I'm right!" and kid #2 shouts, "Tell her I'm right!"

And Mom says, of course, "You're both right!" in an attempt to get them to stop fighting. Which they do...but not for long.

How much denial is implied? Is she trying to ignore that the two ideas are mutually exclusive? Or are they? At what price is she balancing these two situations. How much compromise is there? How much stress or tension? On the other hand, how much is she simply trying to remain objective while in the midst of two opposing forces?

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All of the above? This is a stressful card. Absolutely. And it can be stressful because the woman is trying to ignore that these two ideas are mutually exclusive (and no real "synthesis" is possible)--or trying to be objective and fair.

As for compromise, there is no real compromise because those two swords remain crossed. There is a temporary censation of hostilities a moment of peace between the two, if you will, but the compromise is temporary at best. A REAL compromise would require each side to acknowledge that the other side might have a point. And they're not going to do that.

And how much of it is making lemonade when life hands you lemons? Working with what you've got. Transforming one situation into another.

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I'd say this interpetation is more Temperance than 2/Swords. 2/Swords is just trying to get the two kids to stop arguing, to give up the swords. Temperance is where you find that third idea--where you get the kids to actually work together instead of forcing them to sit quietly in their separate corners.

Yeah, what she said

I think Thirteen summed up (in a much better way) anything that I would have to say about this card. I as well never saw this card as a choice having to be made, more balanced thinking, or as Thirteen said, blind Justice. (The arguement between the kids is a great way to explain this card) In any case, I completely agree with all that Thirteen said.

an example?

lets see an example, guys please tell me if this fits the case

You have a new idea, the Ace of Swords. Lets say that you decide what you want to do with your life (how dramatic): where you want to study, what you want to study, how you want to live your life, what you want out of it, how you want to earn money, etc ... you choose

So lets pick that you want to live your life in X town, you want to move there. You want to develop your life in that place and you decide to work towards your goal. But it's not a very easy goal and sometimes you run out of strength, stamina, even hope, thinking that it was very foolish of you to believe that you could achieve that. All in all you keep trying and you keep looking: looking for the money, for the place, for the means...

So then suddenly you are given (i.e. you find in the newspaper, a friend tells you about it, someone suggests it) the chance to try out for this new job. BUT this new job implies that you would have to stay in your current town, and put your plans on hold. On the other hand, you could always use the money. Opposing ideas (Two of Swords). It's not what you wanted to do on the first place, but you could sure use it. You feel like you're turning your back on what you've always wanted, even if it's just momentarily. You might feel like you're giving up on your dreams or ideas. Maybe taking this job is acknowledging how foolish you were for following those decisions that took you nowhere. Or maybe taking this position is just helping to build the path to your plans, can you be blowing things out of proportion.

For you taking this job might mean giving up and admiting that you were wrong????

So you have in front of you two choices. Part of the dilemma is real, part of the dilemma is in your head

Perhaps it's not really a matter of two choices... maybe it's a matter of adjusting or molding your plans / new ideas .. a chance to re-evaluate them on a different light?

What do you guys think of this example?

Thank you all! That was great and very, very helpful.. Special thanks to you Thirteen for your extraordinary clarity as usual!

So to sum it up a little bit-

There is a certain amount of receptivity to this card. (the mother has to listen to her two children, the two sides) But it is not so much about choosing between them. She does not want to choose between them and the very fact that there are two opposite situations/ideas happening is what is causeing the stress, tension. The fact that neither side is winning out is the only reason for this temporary reprieve. So perhaps the only similarity to the 8 is that there seems to be a hold on any action, at least until this gets resolved?h

Re: an example?

Indigo_lady said:

BUT this new job implies that you would have to stay in your current town, and put your plans on hold. On the other hand, you could always use the money. Opposing ideas (Two of Swords).

For you taking this job might mean giving up and admiting that you were wrong????

So you have in front of you two choices. Part of the dilemma is real, part of the dilemma is in your head

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Um, no this really isn't 2/Swords. 2/Swords would be if you were trying to decide whether to take a GREAT job, or go to a GREAT school. Your Mom says, "go to school! To be accepted to that school is an opportunity you' can't pass up!" and your Dad says, "What a stupid idea, she should take the job! If she doesn't take this job now, it'll be gone when she graduates!"

And suddenly, they're arguing over your head. And they're each right, and each wrong. But what you can't stand is the screaming. "Aren't I right?" they each demand of you, "Tell your mother/Tell your father, you want to take the job/go to school!"

You urge them to stop fighting and say you can't decide right now, you need time to think. But here's the delemma--NOW if you choose the job, Dad's going to look smug and Mom's going to be hurt. And if you choose school, you'll make Mom happy, but Dad will be mad at you--and neither is going to let you forget that you picked wrong. "If you'd done what I'd advised...." will be their refrain.

THAT is the 2/Swords. That moment of calm that you get, that temporary compromise, before a decision HAS to be made and the fighting (likely) starts up all over again. It's the relief you feel at having stopped the fight--and the dread in knowing that it isn't going to last.

What YOU'RE describing, with the delemma between follow your dream and struggle or give into the pressure to accept a good job and feel you've failed, is
the 7/Wands.

That's where you feel like a solitary man protecting a fortress against an onslot of enemies--financial needs, personal desire for a good job, an easier life, pressure from family and friends to take the job, etc. If you feel overwhelmed, and hard pressed to stay in X town as, say, a starving artist rather than taking that other, more practical job--then your card is currently the 7/Wands.

You feel under siege to give up the dream--and yet, you'll feel a failure if you do.

Re: Re: an example?

Thirteen said:

THAT is the 2/Swords. That moment of calm that you get, that temporary compromise, before a decision HAS to be made and the fighting (likely) starts up all over again. It's the relief you feel at having stopped the fight--and the dread in knowing that it isn't going to last.

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This is very much how I interpreted the 2 of Swords in a recent reading for a friend. I was using the Spiral Tarot, in this deck the 2/Swords shows a blindfolded woman balancing the two swords she carries while standing on a tightrope streatched across storm-tossed waters. I saw this and thought "she's afraid to pick between 2 things... she feels that no matter which way she leans, which sword she moves, she falls into troubled waters. She also can't move forward or backward on the rope... she feels stuck - can't get herself out of the position, nor can she avoid the eventual decision." I guess kind of a combination of the 8 Swords and 2 Swords as mentioned in the other thread.

So, Thirteen, would you agree that whichever direction the woman eventually chooses to go will be the "right" one for her, but may wind up hurting another? Is this a matter of winning at the cost of someone else losing? Of course these would be concepts held purely within the minds of those involved and not necessarily seen that way by outsiders.

I have The Wheel of Change Tarot that depicts the 2 of Swords as a pair of open scissors against a backdrop of one of those paper cut out snowflakes. The little bits of paper that were cut out are still gently drifting away. I'm starting to think this card is a little bit about learning that there are consequences to your beliefs, decisions, opinions. That simply through the process of focusing, distinguising, determining you are CHOOSING. And that process is not all encompassing.

Would it be correct, then, to say the the 8 of Swords then depicts the woman as confident in her opinion, knows what she wants to say, but feels bound not to in which case she will probably drown, or that by standing out, will be sliced to ribbons by others?

Belladonna said:

I'm starting to think this card is a little bit about learning that there are consequences to your beliefs, decisions, opinions. That simply through the process of focusing, distinguising, determining you are CHOOSING. And that process is not all encompassing.

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Yes, I think you're right there. I hadn't thought of it that way, but yes. 2/Swords teaches you that you can't please everyone, always. You can't always keep the peace--especially at the expense of not making a choice.

Let me amend that if a querent gets the 2/swords, it doesn't always mean she's the neutral party in an argument. She could have her sword out, saying, "Let's do this!" and another person's drawn their's and said, "No way! I oppose that! We do it THIS way instead!"

All the 2/Swords means is that our Querent has found a way to make peace--said, perhaps, "We don't need to decide now, let's put it on the back burner," or even compromised a little, "We'll do it half your way, half mine for now...."

The tricky part is, our Querent knows, in her heart of hearts, that this peace isn't going to last. Sooner or later, a decision will have to be made--and/or sooner or later, her enemy isn't going to be happy with the compromise and he'll go back to demanding they do it HIS way.

Would it be correct, then, to say the the 8 of Swords then depicts the woman as confident in her opinion, knows what she wants to say, but feels bound not to in which case she will probably drown, or that by standing out, will be sliced to ribbons by others?

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I think that's dead on. I think the biggest difference between the cards is that 2/Swords may NOT have an opinion--may honestly mean it when she says, "You're both right." Her goal is to stop the argument.

But 8 Swords certainly has thoughts on the subject, an opinion. The question for her is entirely--stay silent and suffer inside, or speak out and get sliced up? I mean, hey, we've all been in THIS position. A friend says, "I want you to meet my NEW boyfriend, you'll love him!" And you meet the guy, and he's HORRIBLE. And then, after he leaves, your friend says, "So? What did ya think of him?"

Suddenly, you feel the words choking you. You want to spit out, "What? Are you Crazy? Dump that sleeze now!" But you know if you do, she's be furious with you, maybe not on speaking terms. Nasty situation, no?

It's interesting that in both cards, the querent is placed in a position by others, a position where their brains have to work overtime trying to find a way out.