Teheuti
Charles - please try to post your material again. I've been waiting a long time to hear the next installment. I suggest that you always copy and save your posts before clicking Submit. I've had posts not appear also.
Mary
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Cards with no people?
Mary
Teheuti
Is this what you are referring to?Mr. Parisious contributed a number of footnotes to an article on "The Thirteenth Sphere" published in Yeats Annual dated 1999(actually written 1999-2000).The subject became even more complicated when the author,Ron Heiser, discovered that the Yeats Tarot layout was directly linked to a largely unpublished commentary on the "Pistis Sophia" which Blavatsky began with GRS Mead shortly before her death. Taroot 11 is the maiden being pursued by a lion named Arrogance right up to the 13th Sphere.
[PS 45] . . . and she [Pistis-Sophia] thought within herself: “I will come into that Region without my Syzygy,* to take the Light, which the Aeôns of Light† have procreated for me, that I may come to the Light of Lights, which is the Height of Heights.”
[PS 46] “Thus pondering, she [Pistis-Sophia] went forth from her own Region of the Thirteenth Aeôn, and entered into the Twelve Aeôns. And the Rulers of the Aeôns kept pursuing her, and were enraged against her, for that she thought to enter into the Greatness. And issuing from the Twelve Aeôns, she came into the Region of Chaos, and drew near the Power of Light with the appearance of a Lion, in order that it might devour
her. [PS 47] And all the Hylic Projections of the Self-willed One surrounded her. And the Great Power of Light with the appearance of a Lion devoured the Powers of Light in Sophia; and (also) purified (or expelled) her Light and Hyle and devoured them. (Thus then) they cast her forth into Chaos. And in Chaos was the Ruler with the appearance of a Lion, of which the one-half is Flame, and the other half Mist, which is Ialdabaôth (1), of which I have spoken to you many times.
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v13/ps_13.htm
Mercurius
I’ve managed to find a copy of the Yeats Annual with the essay by Ron Heisler, “Yeats and the Thirteenth Æon,” that Charles Darnay referred to. Though Heisler makes general acknowledgement to “Roge Nyle Parisious for several conversations on numerous, unacknowledged points in this article, especially those involving the tarot” (p. 251), there are not many references to tarot in the article.
At one point, referring to Yeats’s experiments with automatic writing, Heisler notes
RNP is also referenced with respect to the work of Gerald Massey, in particular Ancient Egypt the Light of the World: a Work of Reclamation and Restitution in Twelve Books, and this may have links with Egyptian Tarotism of the Court de Gébelin tradition (I’ll have to check—the work seems to be available on www.archive.org).
That said, there are also the references to Pistis Sophia Mr Darnay mentioned, in particular G. R. S. Mead’s translation in the UK Theosophical journal Lucifer. In one reference “The great triple-powered ‘emanated from himself a great lion-faced power’,” which is suggestive of leontocephaline Aion of Mithraism, and the symbol of the winged lion head on the RWS Two of Cups, which I have always found rather perplexing (indeed the Twos in general seem particularly cryptic). But otherwise the Thirteen Aeon and the Gnostic scheme are linked to Yeats's Thirteenth Cycle in A Vision and does not seem particularly illuminating.
In general, there is very little to point to the Yeats-Farr tarot scheme that Mr Darnay indicated, unless I am being obtuse — I would expect an article like this to be direct in any links it establishes, and not hinting, hinting, hinting in the manner of AEW!
So I'll have to ask Mr Darnay for a little further clarification.
At one point, referring to Yeats’s experiments with automatic writing, Heisler notes
And the footnote refers this to schemes ofYeats puts the intriguing question: ‘Does then the fool reincarnate?’, receiving the reply: ‘In the final incomplete perfection only into 13 Cycle’. Here, some apect of the lost tarot card system, which Yeats had been concocting two decades before, seems to have emerged.”
Unfortunately this is about as far as it actually gets in terms of explicit reference.the Celtic Mystical Order involving the four talismans (Sword, Stone, Spear and Cauldron) which, said Yeats, ‘related themselves in my mind with the suits of the Tarot’...
RNP is also referenced with respect to the work of Gerald Massey, in particular Ancient Egypt the Light of the World: a Work of Reclamation and Restitution in Twelve Books, and this may have links with Egyptian Tarotism of the Court de Gébelin tradition (I’ll have to check—the work seems to be available on www.archive.org).
That said, there are also the references to Pistis Sophia Mr Darnay mentioned, in particular G. R. S. Mead’s translation in the UK Theosophical journal Lucifer. In one reference “The great triple-powered ‘emanated from himself a great lion-faced power’,” which is suggestive of leontocephaline Aion of Mithraism, and the symbol of the winged lion head on the RWS Two of Cups, which I have always found rather perplexing (indeed the Twos in general seem particularly cryptic). But otherwise the Thirteen Aeon and the Gnostic scheme are linked to Yeats's Thirteenth Cycle in A Vision and does not seem particularly illuminating.
In general, there is very little to point to the Yeats-Farr tarot scheme that Mr Darnay indicated, unless I am being obtuse — I would expect an article like this to be direct in any links it establishes, and not hinting, hinting, hinting in the manner of AEW!
So I'll have to ask Mr Darnay for a little further clarification.
Teheuti
Jessie Weston refers to this in From Ritual to Romance http://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Romance-Jessie-L-Weston/dp/0486296806 - giving credit to Yeats. This infuriated Waite, who had written about it years earlier in The Hidden Church of the Holy Grail.At one point, referring to Yeats’s experiments with automatic writing, Heisler notes . . . And the footnote refers this to schemes of "the Celtic Mystical Order involving the four talismans (Sword, Stone, Spear and Cauldron) which, said Yeats, ‘related themselves in my mind with the suits of the Tarot’... "
Mercurius
Heisler doesn't mention Weston, Waite or go into Grail traditions, though I agree that they must be important here. I hadn't heard that Waite was peeved by the credit given to Yeats—though The Hidden Church of the Holy Grail is 1909 and Yeats wrote this earlier, though unpublished.
Charles Darnay
Roger and Ron Heisler did but Warwick Gould cut all these notes out in the process of several rewrites in which Roger was in no way consulted.
We just found this about the Virgin Sophia and Tarot which was recently posted by MikeH on the Etteilla thread in the historic research section:
" In previous literature, the only place I find a Fall due to desiring the impossible is in a Gnostic heresy described by Irenaeus in Against All Heresies (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm), a book which in Latin had appeared numerous times in the 17th and 17th centuries. In Book I, Chapter 2, section 1, speaking of the Aeon, or emanation of God, named Sophia, Irenaeus paraphrases the Gnostic “disciples of Valentinus” (this phrase in Ch. 1 title) as follows:
Quote:
...she [Sophia] wished, according to them, to comprehend his [the Father’s] greatness. When she could not attain her end, inasmuch as she aimed at an impossibility,.. there was danger lest she should at last have been absorbed by his sweetness, and resolved into his absolute essence, unless she had met with that Power which supports all things, and preserves them outside of the unspeakable greatness.
The restraining power is called Horos, Greek for “Limit” (Barnstone, The Other Bible, p.612), which stops Sophia and casts her Desire away from her and into the void.
The casting out is comparable to the expulsion from Eden, because the “desire of Sophia” is now an entity on her own, a kind of lower Sophia, now plunged into the darkness; her grief, fear, ignorance, and memory of the divine world, in Irenaeus’s paraphrase, then take on separate existence as the four elements of the cosmos.
Like the Hermetic myth, this is an allegory for the condition of the soul, of how it became trapped in matter. But unlike the Poimandres’ account, the fall into matter is the result of desiring what is impossible."
If they had then known it Ron and Roger would have included it in their exposition and tied the Tarot, and the Yeats "Vision",Lunar links up one hundred per cent.
Thanks again,Mike H.
Roger says that according to Waite the "Book of Thoth" was used in the Farr Yeats group which Waite attended for up to a couple years.
We should really take these last letters and re-post them on a separate thread about "The Lion and The Woman."
We just found this about the Virgin Sophia and Tarot which was recently posted by MikeH on the Etteilla thread in the historic research section:
" In previous literature, the only place I find a Fall due to desiring the impossible is in a Gnostic heresy described by Irenaeus in Against All Heresies (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm), a book which in Latin had appeared numerous times in the 17th and 17th centuries. In Book I, Chapter 2, section 1, speaking of the Aeon, or emanation of God, named Sophia, Irenaeus paraphrases the Gnostic “disciples of Valentinus” (this phrase in Ch. 1 title) as follows:
Quote:
...she [Sophia] wished, according to them, to comprehend his [the Father’s] greatness. When she could not attain her end, inasmuch as she aimed at an impossibility,.. there was danger lest she should at last have been absorbed by his sweetness, and resolved into his absolute essence, unless she had met with that Power which supports all things, and preserves them outside of the unspeakable greatness.
The restraining power is called Horos, Greek for “Limit” (Barnstone, The Other Bible, p.612), which stops Sophia and casts her Desire away from her and into the void.
The casting out is comparable to the expulsion from Eden, because the “desire of Sophia” is now an entity on her own, a kind of lower Sophia, now plunged into the darkness; her grief, fear, ignorance, and memory of the divine world, in Irenaeus’s paraphrase, then take on separate existence as the four elements of the cosmos.
Like the Hermetic myth, this is an allegory for the condition of the soul, of how it became trapped in matter. But unlike the Poimandres’ account, the fall into matter is the result of desiring what is impossible."
If they had then known it Ron and Roger would have included it in their exposition and tied the Tarot, and the Yeats "Vision",Lunar links up one hundred per cent.
Thanks again,Mike H.
Roger says that according to Waite the "Book of Thoth" was used in the Farr Yeats group which Waite attended for up to a couple years.
We should really take these last letters and re-post them on a separate thread about "The Lion and The Woman."
Teheuti
Are you talking about Yeat' automatic writing where he mentioned the link with the Celtic treasures? I thought that Yeats' experiments with automatic writing occurred after his marriage to George - post 1917?? That's after Waite's 1909 HCHG. Or are you talking about the rumors of Yeats and Farr working together on a tarot project?I hadn't heard that Waite was peeved by the credit given to Yeats—though The Hidden Church of the Holy Grail is 1909 and Yeats wrote this earlier, though unpublished.
Charles Darnay
No,the Four Treasures do show up in the projected Celtic rituals of 1897-1898.They were still very much on Yeats' mind twenty years later when he got into the Vision scripts.
There is a long story here but may be Roger will tell it himself as he's got pages of notes and cross-references on this and it beats us.
More than rumors,as we explained earlier.Both Charles Williams,Waite's former pupil, and Brodie-Innis charged in the !920's that Florence had been ripped off.Waite demanded that they produce PCS but she had gone missing by this time.Thierens(Preface by Waite) replied in Spades(no, Swords) in 1930 but continues to praise Pamela's work.
Roger never heard that Pixie ever had a fight with anyone.May be that is why she apparently didn't come back to this one.
There is a long story here but may be Roger will tell it himself as he's got pages of notes and cross-references on this and it beats us.
More than rumors,as we explained earlier.Both Charles Williams,Waite's former pupil, and Brodie-Innis charged in the !920's that Florence had been ripped off.Waite demanded that they produce PCS but she had gone missing by this time.Thierens(Preface by Waite) replied in Spades(no, Swords) in 1930 but continues to praise Pamela's work.
Roger never heard that Pixie ever had a fight with anyone.May be that is why she apparently didn't come back to this one.
