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Blue Fury  Blue Fury is offline
Join Date: 09 Jun 2005
Location: In the Deep Blue
Posts: 986
Blue Fury 

Originally Posted by Myrrha
Hello, I'm new to the Thoth and like many others struggling with the courts. It is intersting to read about ideas like "water of fire", and all these elemental intricacies but auuuughhhh it isn't really helping me read the cards. (Just trying to use RWS meanings hasn't worked well. It is hard for me to see the Thoth knights as RWS kings because they look so much more dynamic.)

Can anyone give examples of what they think the Thoth courts can mean in a reading? What are people doing when they act like the Thoth courts, or what kind of "moment" does the court card indicate?

For example, in an RWS based reading if I see the Page of Pentacles it could mean someone is making the first steps in preparation for a new endeavor or it could mean a studious, preparatory moment, or energy.

If someone tells me something that gives me insight into someone's emotional depths (or my own) that is the Page of Cups.

The Thoth courts are so intense looking but the meanings seem more abstract with all this talk of sub elements so it is hard to get them to mean something in a reading.

Any help would be appreciated!
Hi Myrrha, I'm afraid the more you read up on this subject, the more you are likely to fnd that you will have to decide for yourself exactly what the courts mean to you and then try and stick with it.

I have had my Thoth for years, and try as I may to follow the acepted wisdom on these things, I see the abundant energy of the Thoth Knights as very proactive and cardinal in nature. To attribute them as mutable seems fundamentally wrong to me. They even align, in my opinion, better to their major counterparts if we assign them to the cardinals (Fire to Emperor, water to chariot, swords to Justice, disks to the devil) expressing different forms of authority, power and leadership.To my mind this sits happily with the concept of them expressing the fiery part of their natures. I also believe (correct me if I'm wrong someone) that even Crowley felt he had to add a cancerian (cardinal) aspect to his Piscean Knight (see the crab rising from the cup), cos it required a bit more atrsological oomph than was provided for by its designated sign. I also see the mutable aspects of astrology to be much more in keeping with the female aspects of the Queen. Even if she was head honcho and superior to the knight, I feel that the adaptable influence is much more passive/feminine in nature. Of course, if you follow your own designations then you may also have to consider how you feel about the pips and their alignment too.

This is just my personal opinion, and the way my own relationship to the courts have developed. If you want to take into account qabalah etc then by fiddling with Crowley's intentions, you may find you are forever tinkering to get it to 'fit in' wth other sytems and beliefs. I like to read elemental and astrological associations, but if they leave you cold then take what you enjoy most from the cards and ignore the rest. You don't have to read Knights expressing energy as fire, Queens expressing energy as water etc, but it may help when you consider how the combination of elements alter or influence the energy of each particular court.

I think I am rambling now, sorry ...

Fury x
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