Thoth, Crowley, life, and my H.G.A. - *long*

I don't want to ramble here, and I'm not sure I even know what type of response I'm looking for, but I thought I'd post. I've been studying Thoth and the idea of using Tarot for connecting with my unconscious self for some time, and the general idea of enlightenment or "cosmic consciousness" or finding my "higher self" for several years now.

I started looking into the concept of my Holy Guardian Angel, or HGA... and it sounded very much like the type of higher consciousness that is spoken of in the mysteries... the one it is our birthright to achieve, supposedly. But, along with that, I'm learning that there is all of this stuff - goetias, demons, Tetragrammaton, daemons, trees of life in every possible configuration, not to mention differing and sometimes conflicting definitions for almost every card in the deck from different sources and different authors. Jewish mysticism, talk of the Judeo-Christian God, YHWH, all of this stuff I really don't feel helps me at all.

Also, magick starts to come into play, and I'm not sure I even wanted to go there, although the Thoth does sort of take you there (learning about Crowley's cards DOES tend to lead you toward magickal books and such). Fears of conjuring up wild, uncontrolled energies start making me concerned, this from someone who until just recently had decided that the spirit world was pretty much non-existant, that this study was of my own self consciousness and nothing more. Even through my concerns, I still doubt both the existance of the spirits, and also fear the possibility of their actually being real and my running into something I can't handle.

In some ways I know this sounds strange - I guess in some ways all of it does to me. Maybe I'm doubting everything. Maybe I'm looking at all of the "new age" materials (including Tarot, though I know that will probably get some people's defenses up) and wondering if it's all just a big shell game - over the next corner is enlightenment - wait, there's more... but wait... you didn't do this, therefore it didn't happen/can't happen/you can't get there from here! Well Bill, obviously your negative thoughts are preventing your ability to reach higher levels of enlightenment! It's no wonder you don't have the power! It's all your fault!! But... buy this book, take this course, use these charms, think these thoughts, etc... it just seems to never end. I know this all sounds negative - I guess for several reasons I feel like I'm completely, totally saturated in negative energy right now, and it's wearing me out. I guess it's all getting a bit maddening. It just seems like a whole lot to have to figure out, piece through, throwing all of the bullshit out as you go, trying to find just a little spiritual peace!! Even if there came a moment of blinding light that I could point to as that "cosmic consciousness" or communication with my HGA, so what? It doesn't much solve anything... at least not from a pragmatic, materialistic point of view, and even tho that may sound really nasty, the fact is that we ARE living in this world of materialism and wages and bills and layoffs and hucksters and cheats and liars and wars and lying political leaders who say they are enlightened yet tell people to "**** off" or flip them the finger, etc...

I guess the bottom line is where is the truth of our spirituality, and our life here? Where is it? Does it really exist? It seems like a huge shell game to me, and I've been earnestly looking for it now for most of my life. People who say they have the answers seem really ****ed up to me. "Spiritually powerful" people who say they control the workings of the magickal universe, yet still can't keep a home from going into foreclosure or can't keep their car on the road without running out of gas, etc... I'm sure you've run across these types if you've spent any time with various spiritual groups, from Christians through Pagans and more. Where is the tangible evidence of the fruit of the "spirit" or magick, or whatever???

Anyway, thanks for at least making it this far into my rant. I'm hoping I'll feel better tomorrow. I haven't thrown away my decks yet.

Hi billv

I understand what you're saying about it all seeming like a shell game. Most of it is. There are lots of people who are willing to tell you WHAT to do if you're willing to plunk down some of your hard-earned cash, but very few who can actually tell you HOW to do it. This is where a good teacher or mentor comes in handy. I'm talking about a flesh and blood teacher at this point. Once you learn the techniques, then you can set about the business of contacting your HGA. You will have to actively seek out the right teachers, they won't just walk up and say, hey mate, looking for a teacher. I've had several along the way, Stuart Wilde comes to mind as someone who has material available to the wider public in the form of books, audio programs, and a Web presence. I don't consider his stuff to be a rip-off, which is more than I can say for 99% of the garbage on the shelves.

What you describe as negativity is merely the rational mind reacting to the idea that there might be something more. It fears what it cannot perceive through its normal sense channels, and it will do everything in its power to see that you tow the line and quit thinking about all this "spirituality" stuff.

There IS a reality beyond the world of the senses. Most people never reach it because they give up. It does no good to blame others. It all depends on how badly you want it. If you want it, go for it and don't look back.

-fof

Edit To Add: I just surfed over to Stu's Web site as I hadn't been there in a while. Some of the stuff he's got up there looks pretty weird. I'm familiar with his earlier stuff, Miracles, Silent Power, Affirmations, Life Was Never Meant To Be A Struggle, The Art Of Meditation, etc. Stu's always been contoversial, I hope he hasn't gone off the deep end.

Hi bill,
Well, there are lots of topics in your post so I am not quite sure what is your main concern:

1. If magick makes you uncertain or you do not like it, why do you not try to study the Thoth deck purely intuitively? You don't have to delve into Hebrew Mysticism, Golden Dawn, Thelema or whatever. Ok, it adds to understand this deck better but in case it makes you feel uneasy, so just leave it.

2. The question of "Where do I come from, where will I go.." is as old as mankind (that is one reason why we have so many different religions/belief systems, etc), you won't solve this riddle. You can only try to find the way which is best for you (and I think you are right at a kind of "spiritual overflow", so take your time or take a break from that).

3. Esoteric/Occultism is a vaste field with a lot of gray or black sheep in it. Sorry I have to say that but I have met quite a bunch of queer folks on fairs, local meta stores etc. Trust your common sense and your gut feeling.

Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for the posts, I do appreciate it. I didn't really have a main concern or topic. I'm just feeling lost, I guess I just don't have faith in much of anything any more. I'm not even sure what faith is.

The advice about trusting my instincts is good. Lately my instincts have been saying (really strongly) that I need to quit reading. Quit studying. Just quit. Take the cards, pack them up, along with all of my spiritual books, and just give it all up for a good long while. I suppose if the time is ever right to get all this stuff out again it will let me know. I think that is what I'm going to do.

Thanks again...

bv

billv said:

I guess I just don't have faith in much of anything any more. bv

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Bill, was it your business which made you having lost your faith? It is a sad experience to see that even art which was once created to delight man has turned into a merchandize item.

Hope you'll recover soon! Best wishes and hope to see you still around the boards.

Taking a ramble away from any obvious pathway is just an obvious pathway waiting to be discovered!

Take your time, trust your instincts and see what experiences, thoughts and feelings you will gather in that time. You are as free to put down a deck as you are to pick it up again. Sometimes we have to do things for ourselves and totally for ourselves.

I hope that you are guided to the right path for you, right now!

Sezo
x

It seems to me that you are naturally free to use your brain and instincts. Whatever the cause for your present existence, it not only allows this, but encourages it. Think about that. So, you are free to read whatever and think whatever and decide for yourself all things. Do not be afraid to study what other people have said and to doubt those things as well. Will Parfitt gives the simplest instruction to contacting your HGA I've ever read: close your eyes and envision the face of your HGA. See loving eyes looking back at you. Ask whatever you want and listen for the answer. Another book called 21st century mage gives some modern instructions. The idea of Magic is different than how it is generally perceived by newcomers. The more you learn, the less freaky it seems. In fact, it seems normal.

Everything happens in ebbs and flows, it's the nature of the beast. To throw in the towel though, that's a bit premature considering (from the sounds of it) you've not explored the topics you've mentioned. You can't know the reality of these things until you've experiencedthem, and to experience them you need to practice them.
And you can utilise Tarot to begin achieving K&C of you HGA... just takes some faith in yourself, not in other entities.

different take

Well, I think that you and I are comming from a somewhat similar place. I'm maybe a little too scientific in my thought to really take the idea that spiritual beings are interacting with us and tarot cards. So why do I bother?

Well- the way I look at it is that the spirits and other entities mentioned in any mystical studies, may or may not be spirits at all. The question isn't so much about WHAT they are- it is if they are at all. I believe that they are- meaning that spirits and gods (such as Thoth, for example) don't really exist as entities- but they do represent very useful ways to characterize very real phenomenon.... call them archetypes, if this fits your world view more comfortably- gods, daemons, archetypes.... it's all the same thing.

Thanks to all who've chimed in...

Catlin, it wasn't my business that made me lose my faith - it is really the question of *what* faith. I have believed for several years now that the Bible is really allegorical in nature, and probably 90% mythological. I know many people would argue differently. People can believe what they want, I don't care. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my point of view. This is around me just trying to figure out what truth really is, and what those allegorical stories really mean. That's where I'm at, I guess.

Thinbudda, I do understand the archetypes concept - although my question around them seems more to be whether or not they are manifest in everyone's outer objective reality, or just within our individual minds. In other words, I don't want demons living in my toaster, or in my dog, or etc etc... lol!

Sometimes the spiritual mumbo-jumbo with all the talk of demons, YHWH, etc, just gets to be a bit much, rather intimidating and not what I would call helpful in my own take on reality. Plus, I really don't want to fall into a tempest of rituals, demon-thwarting, and the like (although I have and do battle my internal "demons", which is something else entirely).

I think the axiom "What is true for you is true for you" is applicable here. If you believe in ghosts and demons, then you will have the ability to "see" them, because you believe in them. If you don't, you will not see them, and they are not true for you. Real or not, I do know that people can lose themselves trying to fight off demons, real or imagined. I can start to understand how reading some "magickal" books can actually drive a person mad if they are not prepared to accept that information! There is a lot of material that is very complex, and also very threatening and frightening, giving dire warnings and such... enough to give anyone nightmares, and taken far enough would be enough to really drive a person into psychosis who is not prepared to protect themselves from the mental gymnastics it drives you through. Real (outer-world, physically manifested) demons vs. false (in the mind of the beholder) demons - it really matters little in the theatre of the mind. Actually practicing these rituals, I believe, could be very hazardous to the mind, and you might not even know it until it's already too late and the mind's wires have already been scrambled sufficiently to not be able to defend psychical attacks from hidden areas of our unconsciousness that we have artificially pumped up through ritual.

I keep hoping that there is something more tangible, safe, and easier. One that is repeatable - one that everyone can readily experience - one that signifies a reality of a spiritual dimension other than what we already know. Magick and/or mysticism seems to point that way, but I find it's through a haze of new-age crap and empty promises that don't seem to ever lead to their proposed destination - and of course, the final problem always is with the person, never the system. How conveeeeeeenient.

Anyway, I'm feeling somewhat better tonight, and am still hopeful that the cards can be used to help in my search. I think they can. I just don't want to slide down a rabbit hole of trying to understand magick, astrology, alchemy, and other divination before I can even come close to knowing my "HGA". Sometimes I feel as if it's a dog chasing it's tail, or as the symbol for the two of disks represents, a snake eating it's tail. It feels like that alot to me.

Bill