Noblet - Atouts: Le Bateleur

[kwaw]

Just wanted to share this eighteenth century turkish painting of a man at a table holding a zibik that reminded me of our noblet bateleur:

[Rosanne]

Hi Kwaw!
Why is the man holding a Penis? (Zibik?)
Is it- the image- from some sort of manual?
Has it some religious significance?
~Rosanne

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Rosanne

Is it- the image- from some sort of manual?

An 18th century turkish sex manual whose name I can't remember at the moment and source is at home in Turkey so reference will have to wait till I return there; here is a 'Polish beauty' from another 17/18th c. Turkish manuscript:

[TeaLover]

Thanks for your effort - this topic is really provoking. As a printer, I dont believe it is simply broken woodcut. Broken print shloud not have sharp and well ended lines and this part is printed very well (in its historic version too). And it is really hard to repair broken part of woodcut (in fact, its impossible to do it well and for massive printing).

Maybe it is some gesture (you can try to form your hand in the same way) which should show us that the second part of rod is simply invisible (isnt he magician?). I think we should use more simple thinking than in cases of dismembered penises and so on...

[Le Marseillais]

Hello all,

I quickly says:

ALWAYS look at original High Definition pictures or scans.
But best of all: Look at originals in Museums (if possible).
You will not lose your time and will remenber for years about your impressions.
Take a high magnifying glass (x10 and x 30 with zoom).
And note details that attract your eyes.

Yves

[TeaLover]

...when I am reading something about tarot history. People very often use too intelectual approach.

For example in case of BATELEVR is very often mentioned his table has just three legs. I think it isnt true. Old cardmakers sure didnt want to show something in unclear way. What about perspective in naive manner?

And...everybody just repeats tarot was "just a game" but what about medieval hobby of telling stories and combining them? Do you remember big wooden pictures and man who sang stories on market places? He had for example 10 wooden images and he just combined them for a new song.

Why nobody mentions simple idea about story-game when people try to tell story which is combined from cards? Do you remember very important art of speeching which was very favourite in middleage?

It is possible tarot was a game but I dont think game in our modern sense. People didnt want simply to play, they more often wanted to hear something or be a part of a big story. Sure its possible typicall card game played in pubs could develop later. Who knows? Maybe whole ring of arcanas was made according to ONE and forgotten story (but story of universal sense as alchemical series or Dantes Commedy was).

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by kwaw

An 18th century turkish sex manual whose name I can't remember at the moment and source is at home in Turkey...

It is from an 18th (1723) century reproduction of the Hamse-i Atai by Nevi'i-Zâde Atai (1583-1634).

(If you do a google search ATAİ NEVİZADE gets most results, but all in Turkish that I have been able to find).