Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Change

**JSNYC** · 07-07-2010

This post is about the book, the Baguan Yuce (Eight Trigrams Divination) method, and learning the trigrams. The book's full title is: Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Change - 8 Days to Mastering a Shamanic Yijing (I Ching) Prediction System.

And yes, the book is as hokey as it sounds, really, eye-popping hokey sometimes. But it has its good points.

I would give it 2 stars out of 5. The 2 stars come from the divination system and his unusual character, which is generally hokey, but is sometimes enjoyable. This book is 9 chapters, an introduction and a chapter for every trigram. However, he doesn't actually talk about the trigram in the chapters, he mainly talks about having tea. However, some people use this as a criticism, he is just using the tea to symbolize the trigrams in many ways.

One of the primary reasons this book drops to a 2 is because he has an entire chapter of real readings he did for his students and they are almost all medical!

His students are medical students! He is trying to show the divination method by "diagnosing" medical ailments!!! I was quite incredulous while reading this chapter... And he calls himself a master as well...

OK, so skip to the good part. I really like his "divination" system. He calls is the Baguan Yuce (Eight Trigrams Divination). And it is very simply this, "get" a 3-digit number, divide the number by 8, and use the remainder (0 = 8, so 1 - 8) to find a trigram. He puts the trigrams in the sequence of completion, so it looks like this:

HTML Code:

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	0/8
Qian	Dui	Li	Zhen	Xun	Kan	Gen	Kun
---	- -	---	- -	---	- -	---	- -
---	---	- -	- -	---	---	- -	- -
---	---	---	---	- -	- -	- -	- -

I like it for two reasons. First, because I do find that the numbers "around us" have meaning. So the next time I am looking for a answer, I will keep my eyes open for 3-digit numbers as well.

Also, even if the divination method is bogus I believe it is a great way to think about and learn the trigrams. So I will try it now! What is the best use, the strength of this divination method?

831 - (/8) remainder = 7, Gen
Gen (Kên in Wilhelm's translation) is the trigram of Keeping Still, its image is the mountain. Gen is beginnings and endings, representing this divination method as a useful gateway to the world of the Yijing. Meditation, introspection, or contemplation is also linked with Gen. Gen is calm and still, and has the 2 receptive Yin lines from Kun as well as sharing the same element, Earth. Gen represents development, but hidden or inner development, representing the value of learning and using the trigrams within this divination method. In the Inner-World arrangement, Gen comes just before the explosion of spring in Zhen.

I will note, the book has one other redeeming quality. I like his approach to the Yijing; he did make me think about different ways to approach the Yijing. Only 2 stars so I don't recommend it, but 2 stars isn't total trash, it has a gem or two.

**Milfoil** · 08-07-2010

Ba-gua, this is the basis of IChing/IJing is it not? The 8 trigrams which can be used as hexagrams?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba_gua
http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/trigram.htm

Do you have any of the other trigram translations?

Nevada · 08-07-2010

JSNYC, You might be interested in some links I came across while researching an article for my blog. They discuss the origin of the Yin Yang symbol as well as the Trigrams, and may offer some insight into their meanings as used in the I Ching. What I found was that they're very closely related to the Wheel of the Year:

http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm

http://phoenixqi.blogspot.com/2007/0...end-fu-xi.html

http://www.universal-tao.com/article/astrology.html

The third link gets into more esoteric stuff. The Plough is apparently very important in Taoist philosophy (of which I know next to nothing).

According to the articles, the Yin Yang symbol apparently derived from observation of the Big Dipper or Plough constellation as it revolves in the night sky through the course of the seasons. The trigrams may have originally been simple diagrams of how the amount of light and darkness changes with the seasons.

Aside from this little excursion into the origin of the Yin Yang (or Tai Chi) symbol, I have only scratched the surface of the I Ching as yet, so I don't have much to add to this thread other than these links. There's also a very well researched Wikipedia page on I Ching, BTW.

astroandtarot · 08-07-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milfoil

Ba-gua, this is the basis of IChing/IJing is it not? The 8 trigrams which can be used as hexagrams?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba_gua
http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/trigram.htm

Do you have any of the other trigram translations?

i think thats whats the Chinese use for Feng Shui ?
the Ba-Gua mirror that they put infront of their house to ward off evil spirit or bad energy especially if your front door is right on the street .

**JSNYC** · 08-07-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milfoil

Do you have any of the other trigram translations?

I wrote a general thread on the trigrams and their arrangements.
Click here to view the thread: Yijing Trigrams and Trigram Arrangements (I Ching)

Oh, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention that learning about or the character of the trigrams is the point of the book, Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Change. And that is really his point (in the book), that the trigrams are some sort of basis to the Yijing.

And I tend to... desregard some of the definitions in the egreenway link (although his upper charts are very good), simply because it is linked to things outside the Yijing that I don't know anything about (like martial arts and such). Speaking of which, here is an interesting fact: in the G. I. Joe movie, "The marking on Snake Eye's right shoulder come from the Eight Trigrams. The top marking is Water, the lower marking is Fire. Together, in the I-Ching, the symbol means "Completion"."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1046173/trivia?tr0958321

**AprilFool** · 24-07-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSNYC

And it is very simply this, "get" a 3-digit number, divide the number by 8, and use the remainder (0 = 8, so 1 - 8) to find a trigram.

...So I will try it now! What is the best use, the strength of this divination method?

831 - (/8) remainder = 7, Gen

May I ask how you "get" the number 831 in your example? I may have missed it in your post, or in the references given.

**JSNYC** · 25-07-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by AprilFool

May I ask how you "get" the number 831 in your example? I may have missed it in your post, or in the references given.

Sure! And you didn't miss it, I purposely left it vague because I think the process can be personalized for each person.

As I mentioned in my post, I think "the numbers around us" have meaning. In the book, the author relies solely on intuition. He says to let a number "pop into your head". I generally don't do that; I often "look for numbers around me". So, I simply look around me, in my environment, for a 3 digit number that "stands out" to me. In the case of the 831, as soon as I decided to do the divination in the post above, I looked up and let my eyes wander around the room. My eyes were almost immediately drawn to a digital display that is in the room with me, and that number was what was displayed. When I am at work, and I am outside thinking about a problem, I will look around the parking lot, the number sometimes comes from a license plate, a sign, the packaging of a product, anything. (Note: I never use longer numbers and strip off the extra numbers. I specifically look for 3 digit numbers.)

However, I do rely totally on intuition sometimes. if I ask a question and a number "just comes to me" (a clear number comes to mind without me trying to think of one), then I use that number, but that is rare. Overall, I simply like to think of it as being "in tune" with the moment. I let number come to me, via intuition or the world around me, whatever is appropriate for the moment and the question. So I believe it is best to do whatever feels right to you, look around, let your mind and eyes wander, and see what numbers you find to have meaning...

Nevada · 25-07-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSNYC

Sure! And you didn't miss it, I purposely left it vague because I think the process can be personalized for each person.

As I mentioned in my post, I think "the numbers around us" have meaning. In the book, the author relies solely on intuition. He says to let a number "pop into your head". I generally don't do that; I often "look for numbers around me". So, I simply look around me, in my environment, for a 3 digit number that "stands out" to me. In the case of the 831, as soon as I decided to do the divination in the post above, I looked up and let my eyes wander around the room. My eyes were almost immediately drawn to a digital display that is in the room with me, and that number was what was displayed. When I am at work, and I am outside thinking about a problem, I will look around the parking lot, the number sometimes comes from a license plate, a sign, the packaging of a product, anything. (Note: I never use longer numbers and strip off the extra numbers. I specifically look for 3 digit numbers.)

However, I do rely totally on intuition sometimes. if I ask a question and a number "just comes to me" (a clear number comes to mind without me trying to think of one), then I use that number, but that is rare. Overall, I simply like to think of it as being "in tune" with the moment. I let number come to me, via intuition or the world around me, whatever is appropriate for the moment and the question. So I believe it is best to do whatever feels right to you, look around, let your mind and eyes wander, and see what numbers you find to have meaning...

Thanks, I like this as a way to get an I Ching reading. I'm going to try it.

FYI, there are also a couple of hexagram generators I've found online, one with translations, the other without, and both include moving lines, which lead to a second hexagram (BTW moving lines are numbered from the bottom up):

http://www.ichingreading.net/ (at top click on "Create Hexagram(s)")

http://www.taopage.org/iching/iching_online.html (scroll down, click on "Consult the Oracle")

The benefit of using yarrow stick or coins is to get the moving lines and see what the current situation is changing to. I've used toothpicks instead of yarrow sticks in the past. (I don't recall how to do it now, but there are instructions for that online as well.)

**JSNYC** · 27-07-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

Thanks, I like this as a way to get an I Ching reading. I'm going to try it.

It is just terminology, but I think it is important enough to make the distinction. This divination method doesn't produce an "I Ching reading" because it doesn't produce a hexagram, it only produces a trigram. The two are related to some extent because the trigrams are expressed in the hexagrams (a hexagram has an "upper" and "lower" trigram), but this divination method is fundamentally different from the I Ching.

And, after our conversation about randomness in the other thread, it probably won't be surprising that I don't use the "random" output of a computer, because a computer can't create a truly random number. However, I don't know, that may just be somewhat... superstitious on my part.

ETA:
Oh yeah, and I would like to find and try some yarrow stalks (for Yijing readings).

**JSNYC** · 10-08-2010

I have been using this divination method (quite often

), and do not always find it easy to interpret the trigrams, so I thought I would try to write a simple list from my experience. I actually started this over 2 weeks ago, but a couple trigrams were not quite right. I don’t know if they are now, but they are good enough.

Qian: The Creative represents the idea or concept, the motivation or driving force, intuition and inspiration, and thus is also an affirmative answer. Qian is firm and strong. If you are inspired, now is the time to follow your inspiration, everything is possible.

Zhen: The Arousing's image is thunder, shock, if there is a question about taking action, the answer is a definite yes, a bold, decisive, or forceful response is indicated. Now is the time to take the initiative.

Kan: The Abysmal is danger, the path may appear clear but there are hidden traps, dangers, and pitfalls; caution and prudence are suggested. Kan often indicates a need for action, generally defensive action, or action focused on preservation. The image for Kan is the moon, indicating possible illusions and not seeing clearly.

Gen: Keeping Still is standstill and staying firm, restraint, stop and contemplate options. Introspection or thorough consideration is suggested. The mountain is solid, firm and unmoving, neither retreat nor advance is indicated. Gen can also indicate beginnings and endings as well as meditation, and thus may contain a faint, underlying, mysterious or spiritual quality.

Kun: The Receptive is acceptance, devotion, and manifestation. Taking action or being bold or decisive should not be considered. Now is the time to be receptive and yielding, now is the time to follow, not to lead, to finish things, not to start them. However, Kun is not a negative answer, to be receptive and yielding is to attain the goal, or to possibly to receive a new one, anything is possible.

Xun: The Gentle is as adaptable and penetrating as the wind, and sometimes as unpredictable and uncooperative due to indecisiveness. Xun is about taking care of responsibilities or doing what needs to be done, also persistence, compliance, and dependability.

Li: The Clinging's image is the sun, fire, and lightning. Li is clarity and bright omens, but is also dependence. Just as fire is dependent on its source, likewise all of nature is dependent on the sun. Lightning suggests the conflicts and struggles that may also naturally be associated with Li. Li is Kan's opposite, as the moon is the opposite of the sun. Kan is movement in danger, Li is lucidity and paying heed to the signs.

Dui: The Joyous is pleasure, satisfaction, and enjoyment, and thus may naturally suggest communication and social interaction, as well as emotions and feelings. Dui may indicate an affirmative answer in small matters, but may also indicate a need for calm and deeper reflection. Similar to Gen, Dui may express an underlying or hidden quality, just as the water in the lake can reflect the light of the sun and the moon, so Dui can reflect the primal forces of heaven and earth.

Additionally, I wanted to add a short cut to the math, that I use to divide a 3 digit number by 8, in my head. It is very simple, it just reduces the 3 digit number to a 2 digit number. Look at the 100’s place, if the number is even, just drop it. If the number is odd, add 4 to the 2 digit number before dropping it. For example: 831, since 8 is even, it can just be dropped, then divide 31 by 8. For 391: since 3 is odd, add 4 to 91 before dropping the 3, then divide 95 by 8.

JSNYC Mad scientist of the diabolical Deros Join Date: 20 Dec 2009 Location: US Posts: 993	Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Change This post is about the book, the Baguan Yuce (Eight Trigrams Divination) method, and learning the trigrams. The book's full title is: Seeking the Spirit of the Book of Change - 8 Days to Mastering a Shamanic Yijing (I Ching) Prediction System. And yes, the book is as hokey as it sounds, really, eye-popping hokey sometimes. But it has its good points. I would give it 2 stars out of 5. The 2 stars come from the divination system and his unusual character, which is generally hokey, but is sometimes enjoyable. This book is 9 chapters, an introduction and a chapter for every trigram. However, he doesn't actually talk about the trigram in the chapters, he mainly talks about having tea. However, some people use this as a criticism, he is just using the tea to symbolize the trigrams in many ways. One of the primary reasons this book drops to a 2 is because he has an entire chapter of real readings he did for his students and they are almost all medical! His students are medical students! He is trying to show the divination method by "diagnosing" medical ailments!!! I was quite incredulous while reading this chapter... And he calls himself a master as well... OK, so skip to the good part. I really like his "divination" system. He calls is the Baguan Yuce (Eight Trigrams Divination). And it is very simply this, "get" a 3-digit number, divide the number by 8, and use the remainder (0 = 8, so 1 - 8) to find a trigram. He puts the trigrams in the sequence of completion, so it looks like this: HTML Code: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 0/8 Qian Dui Li Zhen Xun Kan Gen Kun --- - - --- - - --- - - --- - - --- --- - - - - --- --- - - - - --- --- --- --- - - - - - - - - I like it for two reasons. First, because I do find that the numbers "around us" have meaning. So the next time I am looking for a answer, I will keep my eyes open for 3-digit numbers as well. Also, even if the divination method is bogus I believe it is a great way to think about and learn the trigrams. So I will try it now! What is the best use, the strength of this divination method? 831 - (/8) remainder = 7, Gen Gen (Kên in Wilhelm's translation) is the trigram of Keeping Still, its image is the mountain. Gen is beginnings and endings, representing this divination method as a useful gateway to the world of the Yijing. Meditation, introspection, or contemplation is also linked with Gen. Gen is calm and still, and has the 2 receptive Yin lines from Kun as well as sharing the same element, Earth. Gen represents development, but hidden or inner development, representing the value of learning and using the trigrams within this divination method. In the Inner-World arrangement, Gen comes just before the explosion of spring in Zhen. I will note, the book has one other redeeming quality. I like his approach to the Yijing; he did make me think about different ways to approach the Yijing. Only 2 stars so I don't recommend it, but 2 stars isn't total trash, it has a gem or two. __________________ Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to perceive.

07-07-2010	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #1

Nevada Citizen Join Date: 19 Apr 2003 Location: California, USA Posts: 4,819	JSNYC, You might be interested in some links I came across while researching an article for my blog. They discuss the origin of the Yin Yang symbol as well as the Trigrams, and may offer some insight into their meanings as used in the I Ching. What I found was that they're very closely related to the Wheel of the Year: http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm http://phoenixqi.blogspot.com/2007/0...end-fu-xi.html http://www.universal-tao.com/article/astrology.html The third link gets into more esoteric stuff. The Plough is apparently very important in Taoist philosophy (of which I know next to nothing). According to the articles, the Yin Yang symbol apparently derived from observation of the Big Dipper or Plough constellation as it revolves in the night sky through the course of the seasons. The trigrams may have originally been simple diagrams of how the amount of light and darkness changes with the seasons. Aside from this little excursion into the origin of the Yin Yang (or Tai Chi) symbol, I have only scratched the surface of the I Ching as yet, so I don't have much to add to this thread other than these links. There's also a very well researched Wikipedia page on I Ching, BTW. __________________ --- "We meet ourselves time and time again in a thousand disguises on the path of life." -- CG Jung

08-07-2010	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #3

JSNYC Mad scientist of the diabolical Deros Join Date: 20 Dec 2009 Location: US Posts: 993	Trigram explanations and a short cut to the math I have been using this divination method (quite often ), and do not always find it easy to interpret the trigrams, so I thought I would try to write a simple list from my experience. I actually started this over 2 weeks ago, but a couple trigrams were not quite right. I don’t know if they are now, but they are good enough. Qian: The Creative represents the idea or concept, the motivation or driving force, intuition and inspiration, and thus is also an affirmative answer. Qian is firm and strong. If you are inspired, now is the time to follow your inspiration, everything is possible. Zhen: The Arousing's image is thunder, shock, if there is a question about taking action, the answer is a definite yes, a bold, decisive, or forceful response is indicated. Now is the time to take the initiative. Kan: The Abysmal is danger, the path may appear clear but there are hidden traps, dangers, and pitfalls; caution and prudence are suggested. Kan often indicates a need for action, generally defensive action, or action focused on preservation. The image for Kan is the moon, indicating possible illusions and not seeing clearly. Gen: Keeping Still is standstill and staying firm, restraint, stop and contemplate options. Introspection or thorough consideration is suggested. The mountain is solid, firm and unmoving, neither retreat nor advance is indicated. Gen can also indicate beginnings and endings as well as meditation, and thus may contain a faint, underlying, mysterious or spiritual quality. Kun: The Receptive is acceptance, devotion, and manifestation. Taking action or being bold or decisive should not be considered. Now is the time to be receptive and yielding, now is the time to follow, not to lead, to finish things, not to start them. However, Kun is not a negative answer, to be receptive and yielding is to attain the goal, or to possibly to receive a new one, anything is possible. Xun: The Gentle is as adaptable and penetrating as the wind, and sometimes as unpredictable and uncooperative due to indecisiveness. Xun is about taking care of responsibilities or doing what needs to be done, also persistence, compliance, and dependability. Li: The Clinging's image is the sun, fire, and lightning. Li is clarity and bright omens, but is also dependence. Just as fire is dependent on its source, likewise all of nature is dependent on the sun. Lightning suggests the conflicts and struggles that may also naturally be associated with Li. Li is Kan's opposite, as the moon is the opposite of the sun. Kan is movement in danger, Li is lucidity and paying heed to the signs. Dui: The Joyous is pleasure, satisfaction, and enjoyment, and thus may naturally suggest communication and social interaction, as well as emotions and feelings. Dui may indicate an affirmative answer in small matters, but may also indicate a need for calm and deeper reflection. Similar to Gen, Dui may express an underlying or hidden quality, just as the water in the lake can reflect the light of the sun and the moon, so Dui can reflect the primal forces of heaven and earth. Additionally, I wanted to add a short cut to the math, that I use to divide a 3 digit number by 8, in my head. It is very simple, it just reduces the 3 digit number to a 2 digit number. Look at the 100’s place, if the number is even, just drop it. If the number is odd, add 4 to the 2 digit number before dropping it. For example: 831, since 8 is even, it can just be dropped, then divide 31 by 8. For 391: since 3 is odd, add 4 to 91 before dropping the 3, then divide 95 by 8. __________________ Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to perceive. Last edited by JSNYC; 11-08-2010 at 01:39. Reason: Added clarification

10-08-2010	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #10

Milfoil Bending Clouds Join Date: 01 Mar 2005 Location: In the Starlight Posts: 13,740	Ba-gua, this is the basis of IChing/IJing is it not? The 8 trigrams which can be used as hexagrams? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba_gua http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/trigram.htm Do you have any of the other trigram translations?

08-07-2010	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #2

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