The suit of swords...

Reyan

So this issue has been bothering me for a while. According to many sources, the four suits of the tarot deck represent four divisions of what one might call the soul: body (pentacles), mind (swords), heart (cups), and spirit (wands). Since they are all aspects of the same thing, I would expect the four suits to be relatively balanced and in parallel to one another. But in practice, the entire suit of swords seems to have a very negative connotation, and most of the sword cards have negative meanings. I don't see how this is related to the mind or intellect, and it feels very unbalanced to me. Does anyone have any insight into this matter?
 

Zephyros

From what I can ascertain, and I am by no means an expert, the Swords are considered mostly "bad" cards because of the Golden Dawn attributions of the cards to the Tree of Life, present in both the RWS and the Thoth (the Marseilles predates these and so is open to a more liberal interpretation). There are some mitigating astrological attributions, but roughly (very roughly) it goes kind of like this:

The four suits represent Mind (Swords, Air), Body (Discs, Earth), Will (Wands, Fire) and Emotion (Cups, Water). Each of them descends, as it were, from the top of the Tree, Keter, which is pure spirit, the potentiality of each element of the suit, represented by the Ace, down towards Malkuth, which is the pure material aspect of the suit, represented by the Tens. The farther down you go down the Tree and away from the ace, the suit is "polluted" with other forces. In suits such as Discs, this is harmonious, since the Earth is happiest when it is at the bottom; this is why the Ten of Discs, for example, is such a good card. Cups and Wands are (very roughly) "medium" suits of elements, so they can go either way, and so they do; there are both good and bad cards there. The Tens are usually "bad" cards since they have become so polluted they lose the coherency of their suits, and descend to the next. In the case of the Ten of Discs, however, there is also nowhere to descend to, it is the bottom of the bottom, a very "earthy" position, from which there is no place to go but up from there.

However, Swords, representing the mind, spirit, thought are happiest when in Keter; they are pure energy of consciousness, and so very much "dislike" going down into the earth, since it against the nature of pure thought to be forced into material aspects. Illustrating this is, for example, is the Three of Swords; the three swords in the heart show pure thought wounding emotion (in the Thoth this card is similar, only with a white flower instead of a heart.) showing that too much thinking and too little emotion can have devastating consequences. Of course, like I said, they're not all bad, but then the thing that mitigates this unharmonious balance is the astrological attribution of the card. Here's a rough diagram of the Tree of Life, to understand better. What's important in this case, is simply, that it has a top, and a bottom.

http://janetboyer.typepad.com/.a/6a013485f24774970c0133f4f8ae05970b-800wi

I'm not sure I explained all this as well as others could, so I hope you get what I was trying to say :)
 

Richard

Closrapexa, what an enlightening explanation! Thank you!
 

Thirteen

Closrapexa did an awesome job there. Here's two other things to consider:

(1) Keep in mind that not all deck creators agree on which cards are negative/positive or leaning in either direction. Waite, for example, is pretty dour in his tarot card meanings, and he's especially hard on the suit of swords. Crowley, on the other hand, has more positive things to say about swords. Compare, for example, Waite's 6/Swords with Crowley's and you'll find that Waite kinda hedges--leaving rough waters, but not to shore yet. Meanwhile Crowley's all excited about how this is a card of wonderful mental connections, etc.

(2) Swords are the intellect and the intellect is, frankly, not often happy. We may look at that cute someone and our emotions soar, our passion burns, our bodies feel all tingly good. But in our heads we're thinking, "What if he/she doesn't like me?" or "How can I get him/her to like me?"

Heads are where we have doubts, worries, fears, paranoia--thoughts in general. Of course this is not going to be the happiest suit. Especially as "dreaming"--meaning fantasies and daydreams which do make us happy, belong to the Cup suit. The job of the swords is to stay sober, alert, and to worry about what all the other suits are ignoring. To see problems so that they can be avoided.

It has always made perfect sense to me that swords are not a happy suit. Being in one's head--thinking too much--is not usually a happy activity. 6/Swords, the sword of science and puzzle solving is when the intellect is at it's happiest. But most of the time, you use that intellect to solve problems, meaning you see and think about problems. And that can't make you happy.
 

Zephyros

Just as an aside, and Thirteen got me thinking; I used the Thoth as an example since it is the more "illuminated" deck and Crowley explains the why and how of the cards in books and on the cards themselves, but he did follow a different system than did Waite.

I couldn't find an explanation for "why" the RWS is built as it is, as to attributions and the like, does such a thing exist, written by Waite? The PKT is sketchy.
 

scarlatina

I think that the swords cards suggest action and finality to a situation, (more than wands which to me suggest intentions), where a choice is being made and potential for change seems limited which can be considered negative.

also community would disagree with somebody that thinks for themselves (7 of swords or 5 of swords come to mind) so many that I read for tell me they don't like these cards when they appear. But I guess what originally shifted my opinion was constantly getting 5 of swords as an advice card. I think that the reputation has overshadowed the actual, full meaning. I'm also reminded how the description of Queen of Swords has changed in tone over time, how it's said that it used to be associated with bitterness and the widowed only because an outspoken/intellectual female was considered threatening in the past (if not still). Thinking/asking questions/prying etc...curiosity killed the cat.

On getting cards in the swords suit in general- I like to see things happen and fix my mistakes later on! So for me getting swords cards in my readings are more useful/telling than the other suits but I guess I would have less "favorites" among swords but I'm constantly trying to explain to people I read for that worry over these (fatalistic friends) that they are not "bad" cards at all. They are information cards and they provide you with a lot of it :)

closrapexa said:
However, Swords, representing the mind, spirit, thought are happiest when in Keter; they are pure energy of consciousness, and so very much "dislike" going down into the earth, since it against the nature of pure thought to be forced into material aspects. Illustrating this is, for example, is the Three of Swords; the three swords in the heart show pure thought wounding emotion (in the Thoth this card is similar, only with a white flower instead of a heart.) showing that too much thinking and too little emotion can have devastating consequences.
Click to expand...

Also this is so interesting, I can see how the energy of thought would have a resistance in crossing from the metaphysical to physical and this is essentially what swords cards are representing. It is creation from the mind, the mind being a limitless source of creation verses things we know from the earth having an affect on us.
 

Richard

closrapexa said:
Just as an aside, and Thirteen got me thinking; I used the Thoth as an example since it is the more "illuminated" deck and Crowley explains the why and how of the cards in books and on the cards themselves, but he did follow a different system than did Waite.

I couldn't find an explanation for "why" the RWS is built as it is, as to attributions and the like, does such a thing exist, written by Waite? The PKT is sketchy.
Click to expand...
Actually, both the Waite and Crowley decks are derived from the Golden Dawn system (for which Mathers was largely responsible). However, Waite and Crowley each had different perspectives on the Tarot, which are obvious from the companion books to their decks. In some respects Waite adhered more closely to the Golden Dawn than did Crowley (such as in the numbering of the Majors), but Crowley's keywords on the pip cards are derived drectly from the Golden Dawn titles, but these same titles influenced the illustrations of the Waite Minors. There are probably more similarities than differences in the Waite and Crowley decks. A look at Book T - The Tarot (a Golden Dawn book which is available free online) will confirm this.

However, I think that your comments on the Swords is better than anything else I've read on the subject.
 

veniteangeli

Actually I find the suit of Swords one of the easiest to identify with. Perhaps I'm a negative person, but personally I like that the suit of Swords DOESN'T pull any punches. But I like that each "bad" card has a silver lining.

Nowhere is this so obvious than in the ten of Swords - the worst has happened. What you feared, has happened, it's bad, and it happened, and you hoped it wouldn't but it did. Silver lining? It's OVER now. You can stop fretting. There's nowhere to go but up.

Anyway, to keep this post on topic, the point of my story is, I don't find the Swords "negative". I find them realistic, and I find that none of them are completely unredeemable. Even the card (going by the RWS deck) with ten swords stabbing into someone's back, can be redeemed.
 
Cards did not follow chosen spread Negative Aspects of King of Pentacles