Tarot Theory and Practice by Ly de Angeles

[Lotus Padma]

Wow. Awesome thread to read, and thanks for pointing it out, rwcarter. I got all the feedback i needed here, it all kind of echoes what I initially thought of the book - that it was interesting, but all too "The Cards According to Me, and I Am The Only One Who Knows" kinda thing. I do respect her having her own opinions on the cards - everyone who does them must - and she did have so many interesting theories - but...not my cup of tea, really...

Especially the part when she says that if you are trying to read your own cards, you will only ever get either gibberish, or see what is happening in the world around you on a major scale (war etc.) at least I think that was what she was trying to say. That hasn't been my experience at all...I guess one would have to attend her courses to really understand her points of view. hmmm.

[magpie9]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

Griz,
If you use tarot as a predictive tool, the simple fact that you didn't use a given spread because you didn't like the outcome of the spread doesn't invalidate whatever was predicted in the spread. So if one laid five spreads until they got an outcome they were happy with, that doesn't mean what was indicated in the first four spreads won't happen. By the simple definition of using the tarot predictively, the four outcomes that were ignored are as likely to happen as the outcome that the reader finally went with.

The above also goes for Querents who go to multiple readers with the same question, ignoring what previous readers predicted until they find a reader who tells them what they want to know.
Rodney

I haven't read this book yet, and I haven't read this whole thread, so I hope I'm not being redundent, but I am a predictive reader for myself and others. The way I see it is that what you get as outcome what you get if every one in the situation does what is most natural for them to do. Thats the 1st reading, the most probably outcome. However, if you don't like that outcome, you can read again...and again...etc...asking what you can do to change the outcome to one you want. There are lots of how do I get there from here spreads, and they work fine. However, if you have to lay out more than 2 additional "howto" spreads to get what you want, the odds are stacked heavily against you and you would probably do well to lay out a spread about how to live with realities you don't much like !
What bothers me about what she is apparently saying is that it sounds like each and every unwelcome outcome and all the crap leading up to it will descend like a cloud of locusts on the unfortunate enquirers head!
And that's just not true!

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by magpie9

I haven't read this book yet, and I haven't read this whole thread, so I hope I'm not being redundent, but I am a predictive reader for myself and others. The way I see it is that what you get as outcome what you get if every one in the situation does what is most natural for them to do. Thats the 1st reading, the most probably outcome. However, if you don't like that outcome, you can read again...and again...etc...asking what you can do to change the outcome to one you want. There are lots of how do I get there from here spreads, and they work fine. However, if you have to lay out more than 2 additional "howto" spreads to get what you want, the odds are stacked heavily against you and you would probably do well to lay out a spread about how to live with realities you don't much like !

While I think the above is a great idea, that's not what de Angeles is talking about. She talking about Suzy who wants to know what's going to happen if she tells John she's pregnant to get him to marry her. The first reading says there will be an argument, the second says it will get physical, the third says he'll leave her and in the fourth reading she gets the answer that she wants to hear - he'll marry her. Just because Suzy finally gets the answer that she wants to hear doesn't mean that the answers from the other readings won't also happen. So there will be an argument, it will get physical, he'll leave her, but then he'll marry her.

What bothers me about what she is apparently saying is that it sounds like each and every unwelcome outcome and all the crap leading up to it will descend like a cloud of locusts on the unfortunate enquirers head!
And that's just not true!

Isn't the whole premise of predictive reading, "this will happen" as opposed to "this is likely to happen if things continue as they're currently going"? If one predicts the future, then isn't it fated to happen? So just because a Querent finally gets an answer that they want to hear, all the other answers that were predicted to happen will still occur. I think that's the point de Angeles is trying to make.

Rodney

[Kosjitov]

I must confess. I cannot seem to finish this book. I have tried on five occasions to sit down and make myself read it and I just cannot keep it near me.

As was pointed out, if you like "theory", you'll enjoy the items Ly puts out for your brain to digest but it is written at a high reading level so be prepared to take a few cracks at it until it sinks in. If you don't mind kabbalic influences, the way she describes the sephira has also helped me digest beginner level Kabbalah. That's about as far as my interest in the book goes, sadly.

When I originally got the book, it was to start digesting the meanings of the actual cards. While some of those that Ly lists I have kept with, others I've thrown out en mass. The every 7th card spread has never sat well with me, nor has the idea that you can randomly throw out cards on the spread of the tree of life and predict some major event. I believe she says to put it away and see what pops up in the news? I also felt a bit put off by the self-quotation of poetry and the "visit" with time... it felt like a change in gears.

It's a relief to find that I'm not alone in my reception of this book. I've only ever "quit" on two books in my life before and this was just *maddening*. Not for the beginner reader and certainly to be taken with measured doses.

[bogiesan]

Rather like casting cards till you get a patter you like, are we not reading tarot books till we find the one we like?

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

Isn't the whole premise of predictive reading, "this will happen" as opposed to "this is likely to happen if things continue as they're currently going"? If one predicts the future, then isn't it fated to happen? So just because a Querent finally gets an answer that they want to hear, all the other answers that were predicted to happen will still occur. I think that's the point de Angeles is trying to make.

Rodney

This is really an interesting thought, actually, now that you mention it. The idea that you're going to have to go through all those unwanted situations till you finally get to the one you want might actually make sense.

But maybe it's making sense because I haven't had coffee yet. My driveway doesn't go all the way to the road when I first wake up.

Originally Posted by bogiesan

Rather like casting cards till you get a patter you like, are we not reading tarot books till we find the one we like?

This is quite an interesting thought, too. I suppose a lot of us actually do read books till we find one we like and agree with, don't we?

[callistoluna]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

Isn't the whole premise of predictive reading, "this will happen" as opposed to "this is likely to happen if things continue as they're currently going"? If one predicts the future, then isn't it fated to happen? So just because a Querent finally gets an answer that they want to hear, all the other answers that were predicted to happen will still occur. I think that's the point de Angeles is trying to make.

Rodney

Agreed - most of the time there are things that happen between the reading and the outcome and it's not always a straight road. It's quite possible that all the readings are correct but at different points in time along the way. A lot of querents focus on what they want the outcome to be but not necessarily about how they are going to get there.

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by callistoluna

Agreed - most of the time there are things that happen between the reading and the outcome and it's not always a straight road. It's quite possible that all the readings are correct but at different points in time along the way. A lot of querents focus on what they want the outcome to be but not necessarily about how they are going to get there.

I really like this thought. And I think it's just another reason not to quibble with people about how many readings they can or "should" have about the same topic. Or can/should do for themselves, for that matter.

[Barefoot Fool]

Originally Posted by rwcarter

Isn't the whole premise of predictive reading, "this will happen" as opposed to "this is likely to happen if things continue as they're currently going"? If one predicts the future, then isn't it fated to happen?

Rodney

Sure as the weatherman...

[rwcarter]

Originally Posted by Barefoot Fool

Sure as the weatherman...

Weathermen forecast, not predict....

But as I don't use tarot predictively, I'm asking how those who do look at their predictions. Ly de Angeles' point is that if you make 5 predictions until you make one that the client wants to hear/accepts, then all 5 predictions are going to come true not just the 5th one.

Rodney