The 25th Rune....

[caridwen]

Originally Posted by AJ

very slightly off topic, this is exactly the sort of situation the historical forum wants to create a new section for...in historical.

I say there are rooms here all ready for discussion.
But. If they get one everyone else should get one too where speculation doesn't draw blood.


There is no need for anyone to get bombastic.
Pictorial minors are a newly made up thing, yet I expect there are people here who would defend their historic authenticity with their very life.

I love using the blank rune. The closest I could ever hope to historically valid use is writing my name in runic. Beyond that, as far as I'm concerned it's pretty much all speculation. That's why books about ancient runic lore written by historians are so thin. There is little proof about any of it beyond the remaining stone tablets and plinths.

No one is getting "bombastic" - people are asking for evidence of an assertion that something claimed to exist - exists.

I have no problem with people throwing dice, doll heads or bits of streaky bacon in with their runes. I do have a problem if they claim they are part of the runic alphabet. How can a rune exist as part of an alphabet that is blank? Is it a pause for thought?

We have to remember that unlike Tarot, runes were also used to communicate and are a written language. It is the equivalent of me saying there are 27 letters in the English alphabet, the 27th cannot be seen or heard but because you can't prove it is not there, it exists

The blank rune is a modern invention and as I said above, people can of course use it, just please prove its historical existence before claiming it's a traditional part of the futhark.

[Milfoil]

Perhaps we could say that 'to date' there is no evidence because archeology and other disciplines of the study of history are regularly discovering new evidence which challenges our current thinking.

Somewhere in the 60s the hippy movement developed into many strands of what we now consider to be New Age thought. (I remember, I was there) And like many other areas of life, much was cobbled together to make a working system which had no actual basis in the historic record. Wicca for example made many claims to lineage etc which have never been substantiated. Likewise the blank rune has also been the centre of debate amongst those who truly study the only surviving records and evidence. To date, there is no evidence of the use of a blank rune or what it would mean, it seems to be an invention of those authors in the late 60's and 70's who were eager to expound their theories yet these theories have been demonstrated to have no basis in provable fact.

So although it is possible that the space or blank could be read in some way, if it was used there is no evidence that it found its way into the divinatory process of rune casting.

It has always intrigued me that no evidence of actual divinatory rune sets have survived. Not one carved or painted rune has been dug up which could be dated back a thousand or more years. Not in all the burials or settlement digs. Did they burn each set after use? Did they throw them into a body of water, bury them???? The surviving manuscripts and inscriptions don't make this clear. There is a LOT that the surviving evidence does not tell us and from that we have to be able to say that we just don't know everything.

The fultharks evolved over time with new runes being added but still we do not see evidence of a blank one in the later Anglo Saxon fulthark etc. So it does seem unlikely that, in antiquity, a blank rune was used in a divinatory sense. Using it today, until new evidence of its use in antiquity comes to light, must, therefore, be put into the proper context of a modern addition from the 60s (since no evidence is available before that time). Perhaps this is our generation's contribution to divination with runes? What will those who follow after us make of it?

[crystal dawn]

We shall never know for sure i guess if the blank rune was ever used in ancient times as most of the evidence we have for runes are for practical purposes such as runic writing on monuments, coins,weapons,etc. Though please refer to my previous post on the mysterious ruthwell cross rune.

Or maybe like milfoil says the blank rune is the modern contribution to runes. Thank goodness for those people in the 60s etc who reintroduced us to runes (and yes I do include blum in this) or they may still have been a forgotten source of knowledge and divination. Whether they invented the blank rune or not they must have felt it had its place along side the other runes in divination.

The beauty is now we are free to choose to include it or not,its entirely up to individual preferance.

blessings

crystal

[caridwen]

Originally Posted by crystal dawn

We shall never know for sure i guess if the blank rune was ever used in ancient times as most of the evidence we have for runes are for practical purposes such as runic writing on monuments, coins,weapons,etc. If it was used it would probually not been part of an alphabet or futhark, but only for mystical uses such as divination.

I would put it a different way. All the evidence we have including the rune poems which were used to help scholars learn the runes, do not mention a blank rune. All the physical evidence we have for example, standing stones, badges, weapons et al do not show any evidence of a blank rune. No Norse literature that mentions runes in any capacity talks about a blank rune. The meaning of the blank rune in modern terms is generally wyrd yet there is already a rune for wyrd so it seems to have no use at all, not even in divination.

Or maybe like milfoil says this is the modern contribution to runes. Thank goodness for those people in the 60s etc who reintroduced us to runes (and yes I do include blum in this) or they may still have been a forgotten source of knowledge and divination. Whether they invented the blank rune or not they must have felt it had its place along side the other runes in divination.

The blank rune is a modern invention. I agree that we should be grateful for those who brought runes back into favour (especially after fascism). Perhaps rather than using the blank rune as wyrd (use Perthro) you could give the blank rune your own meaning that has context within your own life, so it becomes a personal emblem.

[crystal dawn]

Originally Posted by caridwen

I would put it a different way. All the evidence we have including the rune poems which were used to help scholars learn the runes, do not mention a blank rune. All the physical evidence we have for example, standing stones, badges, weapons et al do not show any evidence of a blank rune. No Norse literature that mentions runes in any capacity talks about a blank rune. The meaning of the blank rune in modern terms is generally wyrd yet there is already a rune for wyrd so it seems to have no use at all, not even in divination.



The blank rune is a modern invention. I agree that we should be grateful for those who brought runes back into favour (especially after fascism). Perhaps rather than using the blank rune as wyrd (use Perthro) you could give the blank rune your own meaning that has context within your own life, so it becomes a personal emblem.

Interesting point about the personal emblem, it certainly would make the runes more personal to the individual.

I love the wyrd rune, I also make a point of drawing another rune when it appears as this for me highlights the area that needs more attention. so why not use it. I certainly will continue to use the mysterious rune from the ruthwell cross that I have named Cealc (the reason I have named it Cealc is that the as no name was given to this rune there seems to be some confusion with the rune next to it Calc OE (OE = old english) for chalice, though some authorities think this rune was called Cealc OE for Chalk though now Calc - chalice is the name most often associated for this rune. I suspect that The rune that I have named Cealc had a simmular name to calc and sound and hence the confusion. Just one theory anyway. But for all those that want to use a blank, why not continue to use it. The rune that exists yet does not exist - I love it.

blessings

crystal