*squee!*

[Eeviee]

First, pardon my n0obish fangirl-ism. I simply cannot contain it!

My Thoth deck arrived yesterday! A day ahead of schedule! For reasons not completely known to me, I was ever so anxious to recieve this deck. I'm generally not patient with waiting for package delievery (I'm the person that obsessively refreshes the tracking page), but this delivery took it to a whole new level! - Perhaps it was the wait. You see, I was first drawn to Thoth and Crowley six years ago, at the very start of my Tarot and spiritual journey. I remember there being only two choices in my mind when I placed the order for my first Tarot deck: RWS or Thoth. I went with the Original RWS, and boy do I regret it! I made the choice due to the vast majority of material being used to learn Tarot was based on the RWS, and the common controversy over the Thoth (and what I'm now beginning to read into: Crowley himself). I'm now wondering where I would be if I had chosen the Thoth instead of or in addition to the Original RWS...
Since then I've had Thoth and Crowley in the back of my mind for years now!

In addition to my medium Thoth deck (USG purple box, Belgium printing, 3 Magus cards), I bought The Book of Thoth, DuQuette's Understanding, Banzhaf's Keywords, and The Wieser Concise Guide to Aliester Crowley (written by Kaczynski, author of Perdurabo). Thus far, I do not regret any of my purchases! The guide is a wonderful and compact outline of Crowley and his beliefs. Indorced by the OTO and DuQuette as the best starting point to Crowley. While it may not be the end all, it is exaclty what I wanted it to be! In conjunction with the beginning chapters of DuQuette's Understanding, I feel I have a good base knowledge of Crowley, and has provided me with a spring-board for futher Crowley enlightenment! The Guide declares that Crowley rhymes with "holy"; something once unknown to me, and debated by others (the source materials may come in an additional post soon). The author also provides a list of top 11 Crowley works, which I have been exhaustively searching for to no avail. As the author is one of a highly reccomended biography, his opinion holds much authority for me.

The deck itself is fantastic! I do not see what others claim is so scary about this deck. It is intense, it is detailed, it is bold, and it is beautiful! But scary? No! I simply do not see it. It is not morbid or dark. Perhaps someone can open my eyes. What is it that you/others found "scary" about this deck? While I may be a little darker than the average person, I am usually very perceptive. This, however, I simply cannot wrap my head around.

I was concerned with the common issue of the Thoth lacking scenic pips. I do not know if I was misinformed or misinterpreted what others have said in regards to the Minors, but for whatever reason I was under the impression they would be minimalistic. While they may not display a full scene of imagry, the pips are very talkative! The expressive style of Harris' rendering of them, in conjunction with the keywords make these Minors VERY readable! Add in astrological correspondences and Quabala, and BAM! -In your face meanings.

I can see myself making the purchase of the Large Thoth deck for study and futher clairification of Harris' artwork. -Something I never thought necessary with the RWS! Those are so basic and bland in comparison to Harris's depiction. The imagry itself, in conjunction with Crowley's mad genius enlightenment make this deck stand far above RWS in my mind. Yes, Crowley was a stickler with Harris' artwork, but I have read that she pressured him to create the deck; she paid him money to tudor her in the ways of magick. But, as such, every symbol, every colour, every "backdrop" has meaning! I've read that The Book of Thoth and Thoth Tarot are Crowley's magnum opus, the final culmination of 40 years of magickal/esoteric/spiritual study. That in itself makes this deck far more approachable to me. I cannot wait for the Thoth to "meet me" at whatever level, and I cannot wait for it to grow and adapt to my knowledge base!

Finally, I must add that the "official" Magus card is my favourite! The others are nice, too, but this one just "fits" with everything I know about the card. Perhaps it is not important to some, but the fact that I had/have a choice and chose the original speaks volumes to me. I am very individualistic, and I love personalization; but in this case I felt it was not necessary. Crowley's final decison resonated with me, and I'm thrilled!

Perhaps my studies in Paganism/Wicca/magick were turning to the esoteric/ceremonial/high magick studies already (my Amazon wishlists reflect that), as much of the aforementioned studies refer back to the latter. Or perhaps my studies of Tarot were leaing to Crowley and Thoth, which in turn lead to the esoteric/ceremonial/high magick. I do not know. But the destination now seems inevitable, and I am thrilled to be aboard this ride!

[Always Wondering]

I am happy for you Eeviee. I am an obsessive tracking page refresher also. Hope to see more posts. Folks around here have been very helpful to me.

I am still learning that the Thoth just can't be rushed. I have yet to see an end to it either. There is a Thelemic message of infinity that I see quite a bit. So maybe you are just in time.

It's my experience that Crowley frightens people rather than the deck. But ATU XV, The Devil, pushes a lot of buttons sometimes. I see a connection there.

My favorite pip is the Ace of Disks. Just beautiful.


AW

[Belobog]

I've the idea mr. Crowley never died; his influence is quite huge. Though I do not like the deck, I am fascinated by the imagery.

I'm happy for you, and I appreciate Aleister's work, his character and his legacy, but this man was quite possibly the most infamous man of his time. It's not every century that a man like him lives.

[Barleywine]

Originally Posted by Eeviee

In addition to my medium Thoth deck (USG purple box, Belgium printing, 3 Magus cards), I bought The Book of Thoth, DuQuette's Understanding, Banzhaf's Keywords, and The Wieser Concise Guide to Aliester Crowley (written by Kaczynski, author of Perdurabo).

After you've spent some time with the Book of Thoth and DuQuette, you might want to equip yourself with Robert Wang's "Qabalistic Tarot." He rolls up the symbolism of the Golden Dawn deck (Wang's own contribution), the Thoth, the RWS and a 1748 Marseille deck into comprehensive, highly readable passages. It goes a long way toward illuminating the correspondences between the Tree of Life and the tarot as envisioned in the Western Mystery Tradition. Unfortunately, the card scans are only black-and-white, even in my hardcover first edition.

[Grigori]

Welcome to the Thoth forum. Sounds like you have lots to keep you busy for a long time to come Great selection I reckon.

[ravenest]

Thanks for the interesting and rather intelligent post

Originally Posted by Eeviee

... I was first drawn to Thoth and Crowley six years ago, at the very start of my Tarot and spiritual journey. I remember there being only two choices in my mind when I placed the order for my first Tarot deck: RWS or Thoth. I went with the Original RWS, and boy do I regret it

I did get Thoth first at the start of my journey but soon after ended up with a RW (cant remember how) I would keep the Thoth for my own use at first and be more liberal with the RW starting my first readings with that deck. Thoth took over before too long.

Originally Posted by Eeviee

The deck itself is fantastic! I do not see what others claim is so scary about this deck. It is intense, it is detailed, it is bold, and it is beautiful! But scary? No! I simply do not see it. It is not morbid or dark. Perhaps someone can open my eyes. What is it that you/others found "scary" about this deck? While I may be a little darker than the average person, I am usually very perceptive. This, however, I simply cannot wrap my head around.

Probably has something to do with my first comment above

Originally Posted by Eeviee

I was concerned with the common issue of the Thoth lacking scenic pips. I do not know if I was misinformed or misinterpreted what others have said in regards to the Minors, but for whatever reason I was under the impression they would be minimalistic. While they may not display a full scene of imagry, the pips are very talkative! The expressive style of Harris' rendering of them, in conjunction with the keywords make these Minors VERY readable! Add in astrological correspondences and Quabala, and BAM! -In your face meanings.

At first I prefered the RW pips ... yes, 'scenic', thats the issue I think, gradually I moved more towards what I would call the abstract display of the energies other than the scenic. Perhaps this is because the scenic contains the essence, but its hard to reinterpret the essence into a varient 'scene' while, in a sense, the abstract is closer to the essence without the scenic metaphor so that part of the 'mind' (or I should say, my 'mind') finds it easier to place that essence or energy into a variety of scenes or the one necassary or relevant in the moment. .... if that makes sense?

Originally Posted by Eeviee

I can see myself making the purchase of the Large Thoth deck for study and futher clairification of Harris' artwork. -Something I never thought necessary with the RWS! Those are so basic and bland in comparison to Harris's depiction. The imagry itself, in conjunction with Crowley's mad genius enlightenment make this deck stand far above RWS in my mind. Yes, Crowley was a stickler with Harris' artwork, but I have read that she pressured him to create the deck; she paid him money to tudor her in the ways of magick. But, as such, every symbol, every colour, every "backdrop" has meaning! I've read that The Book of Thoth and Thoth Tarot are Crowley's magnum opus, the final culmination of 40 years of magickal/esoteric/spiritual study. That in itself makes this deck far more approachable to me. I cannot wait for the Thoth to "meet me" at whatever level, and I cannot wait for it to grow and adapt to my knowledge base!

In light of that I think this is a good deck for you. You are really going to enjoy it and learn from it.

Originally Posted by Eeviee

Finally, I must add that the "official" Magus card is my favourite! The others are nice, too, but this one just "fits" with everything I know about the card. Perhaps it is not important to some, but the fact that I had/have a choice and chose the original speaks volumes to me. I am very individualistic, and I love personalization; but in this case I felt it was not necessary. Crowley's final decison resonated with me, and I'm thrilled!

Mine too.

Originally Posted by Eeviee

Perhaps my studies in Paganism/Wicca/magick were turning to the esoteric/ceremonial/high magick studies already (my Amazon wishlists reflect that), as much of the aforementioned studies refer back to the latter. Or perhaps my studies of Tarot were leaing to Crowley and Thoth, which in turn lead to the esoteric/ceremonial/high magick. I do not know. But the destination now seems inevitable, and I am thrilled to be aboard this ride!

Perhaps a bit of both? If you are intelligent, curious and insightfull I think its a bit of an inevitable path, with the exception of some forms of paganism I think most of the things you mention have a root in the 'higher' tradition. Wicca can be a lot of fun but one who penetrates its roots and core will find the 'stamp of the Beast' upon it (e.g. check The Great Rite {especially the original versions}
with Crowley's Gnostic Mass.)

Enjoy the ride - its a great one ... and keep in touch.

[toj]

.....

[Eeviee]

Originally Posted by Always Wondering

I am happy for you Eeviee. I am an obsessive tracking page refresher also. Hope to see more posts. [...]
AW

Thanks for the support! I was so pleased to see many people who were "happy" for me! It made me feel a lot less like the dork I was kinda looking like. lol. ;] And yes, the Ace of Disks is FANTASTIC!

Originally Posted by Belobog

I've the idea mr. Crowley never died [...]
I'm happy for you, and I appreciate Aleister's work, his character and his legacy, but this man was quite possibly the most infamous man of his time. It's not every century that a man like him lives.

lol. I really like that idea. He is definitely infamous! I've really taken a shining to him. I just ordered Perdurabo after completing The Weiser Concise Guide to Aliester Crowley, along with The Magick of Aliester Crowley by DuQuette! I cannot get enough of this man, as of late!

Originally Posted by Barleywine

After you've spent some time with the Book of Thoth and DuQuette, you might want to equip yourself with Robert Wang's "Qabalistic Tarot." [...]

Yes! I have indeed had my eye on that book for a bit, now. I feel as though I should master some other things first. Not to mention all of the awesome esoteric books are expensive... o.0; $45 on Amazon US!!! -cries-

Originally Posted by Grigori

Welcome to the Thoth forum. Sounds like you have lots to keep you busy for a long time to come Great selection I reckon.

Oh, I do. And I'm eating it all up! Thanks for letting me know I had a good start here! I took a lot of time reading up reviews of books on Aeclectic, Amazon, and this Thoth Forum in the attempt to make sure I had the bases covered (to begin with, anyways)!

Originally Posted by ravenest

Thanks for the interesting and rather intelligent post

[...]

At first I prefered the RW pips ... yes, 'scenic', thats the issue I think, gradually I moved more towards what I would call the abstract display of the energies other than the scenic. Perhaps this is because the scenic contains the essence, but its hard to reinterpret the essence into a varient 'scene' while, in a sense, the abstract is closer to the essence without the scenic metaphor so that part of the 'mind' (or I should say, my 'mind') finds it easier to place that essence or energy into a variety of scenes or the one necassary or relevant in the moment. .... if that makes sense?

[...]

Perhaps a bit of both? If you are intelligent, curious and insightfull I think its a bit of an inevitable path ... (e.g. check The Great Rite {especially the original versions}
with Crowley's Gnostic Mass.)

Enjoy the ride - its a great one ... and keep in touch.

Awe! Thanks for calling my post "rather intelligent" I was worried there would be a lot of eye rolling and snarling based off of the title and first sentence. lol. I'm very glad you, among others, actually took the time to read and respond despite my spazzums. ;]
You're notes on the non/scenic pips is very interesting... I'm finding that a lot of times I'm preferring the abstract (Thoth) pips to the scenic (RWS) pips. The scenic pips sometimes seem pretty bogged down... with, well, a scene! I find that in some cases I much prefer the abstract, as I can interpret it to many situations without feeling like it belongs to the 'scene' being portrayed in the RWS imagery, where I struggle to make a connection that in fact isn't actually (visibly) there!
haha, yes, it is more than likely most definitely both! I'm starting to understand where the term "fluffy" falls into all this talk of Paganism/Magick... (uh... I don't really have a concrete comment on that, other than I wrote that in as an observation: I come in peace. *please; no flaming wars!*)
I'm familiar with The Great Rite, will have to re-read what the Weiser Concise said about the Gnostic Mass...
I shall try to keep in touch, thanks for the invite! =]

Originally Posted by toj

I am actually going out to purchase the large deck today. [...]

Update: got the larger deck and it is surprisingly easier to shuffle than most of my other decks. The larger size is perfect for the deck.

Awesome to know! Thank you for updating me/us! -Let me know how much more clarity the Large Edition brings to Harris' artwork, if you would be so kind.

[toj]

The larger deck is so nice to read from and helps a lot when studying the cards. It has helped me to appreciate the deck more.