looking for advice in ceremonial magick...

[Mallah]

I made a post over in the "Spirituality" forum because my request is not specifically Tarot related...

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=180381

wondering if there are any ceremonialists in here who might address my issue; thanks.

[Always Wondering]

Hi,

I can't follow your link because I am not a subscriber. You may get more help if you repost your question.

AW

[Mallah]

Good point; I'll copy my question here. Might go better under sub forum "golden dawn tradition" but this is not so much a tarot post:


I've been doing ceremonial magick basics (LBRP, Middle Pillar, Circulations, Analysis of Keyword, Hexagram rituals and recently the Greater or Supreme Invoking Ritual of the Pentagram) Starting up about a year ago. This was a re-start of work I began about 15 years prior. I've studied and meditated on Qabalah and related subjects for many years.

Here's what I want to know...please, from those practitioners (not arm chair types, but actual DOERS, please...)

Can i expect my "seeing" to improve? When I do these practices (almost every day, sometimes twice) it's more like "feeling/knowing" that the patterns I'm creating astrally are there. That the Archangels are present. That the light has descended....etc etc.

Sometimes I can barely see things...and then it's more of a knowing than a seeing. Maybe this is all I can expect to expand. And I'd say that that ability IS expanding. But when the instructions say "make the sigil blue"...make the pentagram bright blue, flecked with gold.... well, that's pretty specific seeing there.

Reason I ask is I know this is all leading up to pathworking...and that all seems like it's very important to SEE what's going on. And so I hold off, saying ok, someday I'll be ready for that, but for now, this is it.

I really enjoy my "ceremonies" as they are and am definately growing in all kinds of ways. I suppose that's enough really. But i know this is all leading somewhere.

Recently I tried some "shamanic journeying" with a group, and just could not get off the ground because of my limited visualization skills. And yet I know just by saying I have limited viz skills, I'm affirming that.

I've tried some of the exercises I've seen: "Try holding your (astral) hands in front of your face and try to see them" "Try opening your astral/third eye".

Just wondering if this is gonna improve, or if I just have to wait on it and someday it'll happen. Or not. I'd think just DOING the ceremonies would make it happen, eventually.

What do you think?

[Always Wondering]

Well, there are many more experienced than I and I hope they will reply.

I will say that I was happy and a bit relieved when I read Sam Webster address modlaities in his book Tantric Thelema. There is about 1 1/2 pages, but I will try and quote the good bits.

There are many modalities through which we perceive and interact with the world: vision, hearing, touch, smell, taste and thought. Most of us process the world and remember our experiences primarily through one of these, though another may be a strong second. To figure this out in you case ask your how you remember what eveyone said? The first woud be a visual, the later auditory. Also ask how you solve problems. Do you visualize a solution or talk it through, or do you 'feel it out'? The first is visual again (this is the dominant mode in our culture), talk is aural, the last is tactile. Some folk sniff out problems, and I'm sure that sombody out there can taste a solution, though I've never met them. Pure cognition without sensory reference would be the thought modality, but this is the realm of the noetc and we will leave that for another discussion.
The reason for bringing this up is that 'visualization' in the sense of seeing the phases of a practice is not the only way to get the job done. Sound and touch are also just as effective. For instance, the Tibetans tend to focus on the visual while the Vedic tradition is auditory. I'm sure the other senses could be used as well. However, in writing this, I can't always refer to all of the modalities. So when I say 'visualize' know that you should use the modality that works for you. As an example I don't really visualize pentagrams when I draw them. I feel them as a diamond-like density in space before me, invisible but functioning in exactly same way as a blazing image of one.

I am not highly visual either.

AW

[Mallah]

Thank you. The last two sentences were certainly helpful! That's sort of the way it's going for me at the moment...but it's getting stronger. So is my "empath" ability.

I'm finding that if, during my ceremonial, I spend some time connecting with and thru my quartz sphere, everything grows clearer/more intense. Mostly as a feeling, but aslo visually. I note that quartz is connected to malkuth, yesod and hod, so it sort of makes sense that astral vision (yesod) would be augmented in this fashion.

[Abrac]

Your ability to "see" will improve over time with practice. But it's not the same for everyone. Some people are more visual, others auditory, others feeling. It sounds like you may fall into the latter category.

A lot of the magical literature leans toward visualization and it can be frustrating if you're not a visual person. If you want to continue working in areas that require visualization, I'd say just keep at it, but it may take longer for you if your not that way inclined.

But it's not necessary to visualize. You can play to your strengths and develop those areas that come more naturally to you. It really comes down to what you want. Do you want to be "well-rounded," having a little strength in many areas, or are you looking to consolidate your power quicker?

[Mallah]

For me, i think I got tired of just reading about stuff, and wanted to become "practicing". So I took up doing ritual. I love it, I must say. And i know that one way to really grow is thru pathworking. But I suppose it can be done "blind"....sort of feeling my way thru it. The Qabalistic method is especially effective, I find, having tried it against other methods....and, needing to really focus on a path, that's become it for me. But so much of the work on the paths is with IMAGERY. But maybe I'm wrong about this, too. I mean there's all kinds of correspondences like stones, scents, pitches, names, etc. Someone said I needed to get out of my own way. I sort of see that being so.

As far as wanting to concentrate things or make them go faster, well, I'm only gonna unfold as fast as I'll unfold.

I think in today's world, we get so used to things happening faster. Back in the day, it used to take months/years for someone to get hold of ONE decent book on a subject, or find a school or teacher. Now, we can have all the "classics" on our shelf and read in no time! But that ain't gonna make the ol' flower bloom any faster than before, you know?

You know, I started w Qabalah about 20 years ago, and because of circumstances, I put it away for about 10 years. But it kept working in me. I'd often find myself reflecting on the tree... like it wouldn't stop growing within me even though I wasn't "doing it". It was "doing me" as it were. So, now, coming back to all this a year ago, and beginning to read and study more, I find myself further along, and understanding things a lot better.

[Grigori]

Hi folks

As this thread exists also in Spirituality, I will close this version and move it to the Golden Dawn forum. To continue discussing please go to the thread in Spirituality which was posted first

Many thanks!