Reading 'The Pictorial Key to the Tarot' by AE Waite - Confused?

[MagsStardustBlack]

Originally Posted by tarotbear

Dear Mags -

The only way is to Google these people.

'The Pictorial Key to the Tarot' needs a good modern editor to rewrite it. It is written in that stifled, condescending Victorian style that implies the author has more knowledge of the subject that the reader, and if the reader doesn't understand it is because the reader is an ignoramus. IMHO the language needs a serious updating, or at least a dictionary to explain what all these archaic words translate into.

Don't feel badly - the book is meant to confuse the reader so that the truly uninterested will give up.

Oh thank goodness TarotBear.... It's not just me.. I was thinking ''what on earth am i reading'' It did make me feel like i was an ideot.. oh well, i'm not giving up, it needs to be read, i'l read it twice and probably still won't 'get' it lol, but atleast it will be read!

((hugs)) for your kindness,

Mags :.)

[MagsStardustBlack]

Originally Posted by LRichard

I really think that Pictorial Key is mainly a reference book. (It needs a good index, however.) If it is too frustrating to read straight through, just put it aside, or skip around to the parts which you find interesting.

Ok LRichard - good point taken. I'l try to finish it at least once then use it as a reference book, if i can't finish it i won't beat myself up for not being 'smart' enough. I just can't believe someone can get away with publishing something that makes little sense to the reader, but it may be a 'victorian' style of writing, but then he does asume you know 'who' he is refering too.

[MagsStardustBlack]

Originally Posted by Barleywine

I might suggest that you would be better served by reading "about" these people at first rather than trying to read them outright. Levi's core work was translated into English by Arthur Edward Waite, so it was probably into that Victorian English Tarotbear mentioned. Court de Gebelin's "Le Monde Primatif" is several volumes, although I think tarot is discussed in only one of them. Here are a couple of tidbits from Wikipedia. The more modern histories of the tarot (Place, Huson, et al) will probably fill you in further. I can't speak from direct knowledge since I don't own any of the above, and my historical references are all older.

Eliphas Levi (Alphonse Louis Constant)

His magical teachings were free from obvious fanaticisms, even if they remained rather murky; he had nothing to sell, and did not pretend to be the inititate of some ancient or fictitious secret society. He incorporated the Tarot cards into his magical system, and as a result the Tarot has been an important part of the paraphernalia of Western magicians. He had a deep impact on the magic of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and later on the ex-Golden Dawn member Aleister Crowley. He was also the first to declare that a pentagram or five-pointed star with one point down and two points up represents evil, while a pentagram with one point up and two points down represents good. It was largely through the occultists inspired by him that Lévi is remembered as one of the key founders of the 20th century revival of magic.

Antoine Court de Gebelin

It was his immediate perception, the first time he saw the Tarot deck, that it held the secrets of the Egyptians. Writing without the benefit of Champollion's deciphering of the Egyptian language, Court de Gébellin developed a reconstruction of Tarot history, without producing any historical evidence, which was that Egyptian priests had distilled the ancient Book of Thoth into these images. These they brought to Rome, where they were secretly known to the popes, who brought them to Avignon in the 14th century, whence they were introduced into France. An essay by The Comte de Mellet included in Court de Gebelin's Monde primitif is responsible for the mystical connection of the Tarot's 21 trumps and the fool with the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet. An essay appended to this gave suggestions for cartomancy; within two years the fortune-teller known as "Etteilla" published a technique for reading the tarot, and the practice of tarot reading was born.

Thank's again Barleywine, i apreciate you adding in the summary of these people for me and i take your point to read about them from others than reading their work from their own sources, it will probably be a lot easier to understand. And thats great for you to recommend a more modern source of tarot history..... cheers!

[MagsStardustBlack]

Originally Posted by LRichard

A lot of the Wikipedia material on esoterica is substantially accurate.



Waite boldly and effectively destroys Court de Gebelin's popular theory of an Egyptian origin for Tarot.



Waite gives credit to Levi for some of his interpretations of the Major Trumps. Levi may have been one of the first magicians to notice a correlation between the Tarot Trumps and the 22 Paths on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. The Golden Dawn picked up on this but greatly improved the correlations by shifting The Fool to Path 11. Waite indicates that he goes along with the GD rather than Levi, although he follows the "traditional" Levi ordering in the section on the Majors.



If one wants to explore the occult origins of the Rider-Waite (and other GD-inspired decks), there is a lot of material that needs to be covered. Unfortunately, this can be daunting, and most RWS users bypass this difficulty by reading the cards intuitively or going by the LWB instructions. A lot depends on what one wants to get out of the deck.

Ah LRichard - you mentioned The Tree of Life before, so it was Levi who first mentioned this in relation with Tarot, but The Golden Dawn shifted them about?



Well i understand that there is a lot of information to cover in order to understand the history and the symbology of the cards. I have been reading the basic story and meanings of the cards but as you say also reading intuitively, so that i can gain experience in 'readings'. But now i feel i would like to start really studying the images, i know it will take me forever, i will be a life long hobby but i expect it will be good fun! :.)

[MagsStardustBlack]

Originally Posted by direwolf336

Ha, I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the fundamentals of each card and I still don't know what the heck he is talking about in that book. And i'v read it 3 times hoping to get more out of it each time

Thanks Direwolf336,

You gave me a smile and made me feel tons better about this peculiar book lol

[tarotbear]

Remember, Mags - Eleanor Roosevelt said it best " No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

[MagsStardustBlack]

Originally Posted by tarotbear

Remember, Mags - Eleanor Roosevelt said it best " No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

Well that is a good moto - not sure how accurate it is however lol. I wish it were true. Some people are very good at making others feel inferior regardless of consent. But thank you for reminding me to own my own shadow.

Funny thing now reading this book I am finding humour in it... Not that Waite sounds like a comedian of that - just having a chuckle to myself as I can imagine he liked the sounds of his own voice at dinner parties and functions, think he thought his extensive fancy vocabulary was impressive with his little Latin phrases here and there, I wonder if he did indeed have the charm to back it up or if he was just another 'iv swallowed a dictionary' snob.

Regardless I'm enjoying the book and reading about the history is interesting, also he appears to have done his research so I have respect for that.....

Thanks again for your post and the next time I let that 'lesser' feeling creep in I will remember that great quote!!

Regards

Mags.

[Teheuti]

Waite's book is brilliant and very deep. Yes, his writing is awkward but extremely precise (personally I think that Waite was a high functioning Asperger's). He chose all his words carefully and he was also trying to convey succinctly the basics of his mystical understanding of the cards. He was rude regarding other authors but he felt they all missed the point.

My suggestion is to read Pictorial Key through to the best of your ability. Then go on to other authors such as - Paul Huson's The Mystical Tarot or Cynthia Giles' The Tarot: History, Mystery and Lore, etc. Yes, read Eliphas Lévi if you are really serious about the Golden Dawn, Thoth and/or Rider-Waite-Smith Tarots or the French tradition of Papus and Wirth. Read Papus; read Wirth (a new edition of his book will be out soon); and read Paul Foster Case. All of them will have references that will lead you to other things. Eventually go back and read Waite and you'll find you understand him at a whole new level. These are all books that benefit from being read multiple times - first to introduce you to important concepts and eventually to really understand what is being said.

I have several posts on Waite and his ideas on my blog.

Mary

[kwaw]

Googling sounds good -- almost like a little bit of research -- like goin to the library without getting off the couch.

ps. Ditto what Teheuti said.

[MikeTheAltarboy]

I actually *like* Waite’s style. The golden age of my particular romanticism is Victorian England. ;-)

I also like the Pictorial Key. My advice is simply to read it *as though you already understand him*, so as not to be frustrated. And trust that the parts you're missing now will be filled in later. If you keep reading about tarot, they will be!