Greater Arcana Study Group—The Fool

INIVEA

The answer to what? What was the question?

The conversation start in Abrac; post 36

With some questions, and other questions followed, besides answers. sorry I am just trying to keep up with everyone and follow along. I'm a bit slow. And there is so much reading involved. that I am getting lost and confused.

ETA: The Apocrypha: Tobias: Tobi. This is a huge read, I was actually shocked by all the chapters, so my question is how much of this book did Waite put into his cards, please tell, I need to know how much I need of read this.
 

Abrac

Thanks for the reply Yelell. The descriptions are quite a bit different. He seems to be making basically the same point, i.e. the Fool is uninitiated and just starting out on the path of enlightenment, at least that's how I understand it.
 

INIVEA

I also found this, which I thought interesting;

The average stage of man in the present stage of Earth-evolution is 'human,' but not yet at the stage of wisdom, consequently that of the 'unwise man.' To us, creatures living upon the Earth, this globe cannot be observed by us in toto, and the Fool is represented as a man walking without paying attention to himself. There is something of absolute Fate about this figure, which reminds us of the old saying of astrologers: "The wise man rules his stars, the fool obeys them." On the point of this fatality all authorities agree. For the rest the explanation does not seem very satisfying. To us there appears to be no doubt regarding the nature of this Fool, presented as a final 'principle,' if we may call it that, after those of the planets. A principle, however, without a number, a principle of nothing, nothingness.

The planets give us the symbols or ideas of organs of consciousness, the zodiacal signs denote modes of substance, from which consciousness is derived. So the zero-principle is the symbol of unconsciousness. In fact he who is unconscious, of himself or of Self, will obey every intimation from without and obeys 'his stars'--his senses, stupidly, blindly.

Of course this card has much to do with foolishness, spiritual dumbness, but it bears also the meaning of that which cannot be helped and which we do best to leave altogether aside; or that which will come right of itself and need not be heeded by us: that to which we are subject, as to the Earth course in its orbit. It does not need our personal assistance. Realising the latter fact this 'fool' might after all appear to be wiser than a good many other people, who in their human vanity imagine they are greatly needed for carrying out the intentions of their God, of Whom they claim a sort of personal knowledge.

A proverb says, that children and fools tell the truth. Taken as a whole, the card signifies that which will prove to contain more truth than appears; that which cannot be helped; those who are unconscious (of certain things, e.g.,) or unreasonable or foolish, disregarding logical propositions and actions. Also that part of our surroundings over which we have no control or which we do not master; that which we have to obey or which we ignore.

The Hebrew letter Shin is brought in relation with this card, and P. says it means "the Motion of relative duration," but his explanation does not throw any particular light on the card nor on the relationship. The picture seems to hint also that the fool "is hurried to his destruction unawares." (W.) And there may be a good deal in it. In divination it may hint at persons suffering under this tendency.

For Further reading if your interested.

General Book of the Tarot; The Fool
 

Yelell

Thanks for the reply Yelell. The descriptions are quite a bit different. He seems to be making basically the same point, i.e. the Fool is uninitiated and just starting out on the path of enlightenment, at least that's how I understand it.

Yes, that's what I figured too.
 

Abrac

Mary—If I understand you, you're saying GD people would know the ordering (for them at least) was 0-21, but other people would read the PKT and think 0 goes before 21? I can see the logic in that, if I hear you correctly.

What purpose would the Shin concealed in the Fool serve? Ordinary people reading the book would already know 0 went before 21, and GD people wouldn't care.
 

Yelell


This picture in particular so closely follows much of the description,

"young man in gorgeous vestments pauses at the brink of a precipice among the great heights of the world; he surveys the blue distance before him—its expanse of sky rather than the prospect below. His act of eager walking is still indicated, though he is stationary at the given moment; his dog is still bounding. The edge which opens on the depth has no terror; it is as if angels were waiting to uphold him"​

I never thought about that part of the description, as if the fool has an angel we cannot see.
 

INIVEA

What I am picking up from all this, I'll do my best here, I will start with this, which isn't a whole lot., but I also don't want to go off topic either.

The fool is in pause, living in the moment, the here and now, The present moment, not the past, nor the future. he knows where he came from he knows where he is going, but he has no concern at the moment. He is filled with gods grace, not of human power. he has no control of what lies ahead in the future, but with each step of experience, he learns. For the moment he is filled with enthusiasm, joy, folly, and innocence, of what he will experience next. The joy of life and the experiences he will learn along the his journey.

ETA: The Fool, lives moment to moment, enjoys each moment as it comes, the here and now, he doesn't concern himself, with the past or the future. What will be will be. everything has it's reason and purpose, he will not know it until it happens.
 

Yelell

What purpose would the Shin concealed in the Fool serve? Ordinary people reading the book would already know 0 went before 21, and GD people wouldn't care.

My question would be, who was Waite trying to keep the secrets of the Golden Dawn from? The regular public wouldn't care about any of it, and if he had revealed secrets they wouldn't have recognized it or had any use for it. Is he trying to conceal info from and/or deliberately mislead ....... adversaries? The Golden Dawn doesn't want competitor occultists to find out their revelations?


Maybe the answer lies within this text.
I'll have to read through that closer when I get a chance.
 

Teheuti

What purpose would the Shin concealed in the Fool serve? Ordinary people reading the book would already know 0 went before 21, and GD people wouldn't care.
I don't know the actual answer but, for me, the quote from Eliphas Lévi (above) suggests what the Shin is for on the Fool's robe. It's a double acknowledgement of Lévi (if, as I think, Waite sees the Fool as Aleph): Lévi's ordering of the cards AND his 'magnetizing' astral light.

Waite didn't see things as an absolute either/or. Over and over again he notes how symbols are multi-dimensional.
 

Zephyros

My question would be, who was Waite trying to keep the secrets of the Golden Dawn from? The regular public wouldn't care about any of it, and if he had revealed secrets they wouldn't have recognized it or had any use for it. Is he trying to conceal info from and/or deliberately mislead ....... adversaries? The Golden Dawn doesn't want competitor occultists to find out their revelations?

I think it actually is from the general public. It is important to keep in mind how... well... pompous these people were. They took their mission very seriously because they really did believe they were witnesses to events that would change the world. They didn't just dabble, they were very serious in their pursuits.

So in Waite's mind I don't know if the idea that the public wouldn't care had even passed his mind. Of course, the same can be said of any of the members of the original order.

Another reason might be slightly more sophisticated. Misunderstandings of this sort can affect people in all manner of ways. Even today people tend to pick and choose their beliefs, often missing the cultural or initiatory backgrounds. This is how you get people saying they practice "shamanism" and then finding out that they simply have an animal themed Tarot deck. Best case scenario for someone who dabbles, nothing happens. But worst case, who knows? Many people have suffered psychological breakdowns as a result of spiritual fervor, including one of Crowley's disciples. People say that "things" can happen if things are done improperly, about which I really can't comment, but perhaps Waite believed it.

In traditional Jewish Kabbalah, people are not allowed to study it unless they are men (which I admit is stupid) but also only after the age of forty, have married and have had children, and have a lifetime of Torah studies behind them. Besides the machismo, the other restrictions actually make some sense. It wouldn't take much for devout believer with no ties to this world, no support system and mental framework to flip out when presented with something as nihilistic as Kabbalah.

So there are many reasons why information like that would be kept hidden.