[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Dercetius

In the 8 of Cups, Saturn's intrinsic limitations seem to restrict Pisces' endless stream of feeling. In a way, you are right to say there is a sense of conflict or contradiction.
The eighth pillar, Hod, structures things through the intellect. Thus, there is a struggle between what one thinks and what one feels. One thing is for sure, they must choose and part with something.
He relieves himself of the chalices in order to move forward. Therefore, it comes down to overcoming your emotions and moving forward.

I am relating to the fact that a choice must be made....and the choice is to leave something behind.....perhaps something in the vacuous cloud of the VII of Cups.....the 12th house is the house of and addictions.....since the cups are still standing, he could be walking away from most anything.....an addiction to alcohol or too much frivolous celebration......choosing a different way of life....a more spiritual way of life or a healthier one....so Saturn is about discipline and restriction

[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Abrac

The moon is a moon in its waning phase. This is a style of art that turns up frequently in alchemical art especially. This link shows a picture by Hieronymus Reussner, 1588; it's also the moon in the waning phase. Here's another picture by Reussner, 1582; it's about 3/4 down the page. This is an example of the waxing phase.

What this says to me is the current phase of this person's life is winding down. I don't see the cups as symbolizing anything in particular; they represent whatever the person is leaving behind, it could be anything.

This is hard for me to relate to as I cannot discount the fact that this is the Cups suit and represents emotions and love...

[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Barleywine

I guess the sticking point for me is that, from a qabalistic and Tree of Life perspective, I don't see the number 8 as positive, even though it represents a binary "equilibrium" in esoteric number theory. Interestingly, departing from the sphere of Mercury (Hod = 8) and moving toward the sphere of the Moon (Yesod = 9), thereby regaining stability on the Middle Pillar, is exactly where the man in the 8 of Cups seems to be headed. The other thing that always made me wonder is the "3-over-5" arrangement of the Cups; if they were truly in balance, I'd think it would be "4-over-4." Something seems slightly "off" about that. Jospeh Maxwell was big on "isomorphs;" of 3+5 he said: "3+5 is somewhat unstable, in which awareness (5) evolves (3) in a wrong direction, that is, sense-dominated." Perhaps the man is departing due to sensory overload; he's seeking greater tranquility of mind.

I see the 3 over 5 as being balanced as the 3 fits equally over the 5 with one left over on each side, making a pyramid...which is quite stable....problem is the top is missing....whatever that signifies...For me, the Moon represents the 12th house, which is a house of fantasy, and very little awareness of reality.....emotions yes as it is a water house....awareness, probably not. I don't know how this fits in with your understanding of the Qabbala and the Tree of life.....I am at a loss there....so I can't say much.

[Abrac]

I think it's something for which he has fond feelings and possibly love. But to me it may not necessarily be another person; it could be, or it could be something other than another person.

[Barleywine]

Originally Posted by Ruby Jewel

I see the 3 over 5 as being balanced as the 3 fits equally over the 5 with one left over on each side, making a pyramid...which is quite stable....problem is the top is missing....whatever that signifies...For me, the Moon represents the 12th house, which is a house of fantasy, and very little awareness of reality.....emotions yes as it is a water house....awareness, probably not. I don't know how this fits in with your understanding of the Qabbala and the Tree of life.....I am at a loss there....so I can't say much.

Now I had a random thought: putting a cup on top of the pyramid would make it "9", the number of the Moon. Perhaps the Moon in the sky is the top cup that got away and the man is pursuing it to restore his peace of mind (hey, stranger things have happened in mythology!) He's going to chase it all the way to the 9 of Cups before he catches up to it.

I personally don't equate the Moon in this card with Pisces because I tend not to mingle Trump meanings with the small cards. Astrologically, the Moon has nothing to do with Pisces or the 12th House, not by rulership, exaltation or decan (as I'm sure you know).

[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Abrac

The moon is a moon in its waning phase. This is a style of art that turns up frequently in alchemical art especially. This link shows a picture by Hieronymus Reussner, 1588; it's also the moon in the waning phase. Here's another picture by Reussner, 1582; it's about 3/4 down the page. This is an example of the waxing phase.

What this says to me is the current phase of this person's life is winding down. I don't see the cups as symbolizing anything in particular; they represent whatever the person is leaving behind, it could be anything.

Actually, Abrac, on further consideration of what you say here, I am starting to agree with you......the cups do not have to be about love or emotions....the can be about anything....absolutely. Certainly they were in the VII of Cups. If, indeed, this were the Hermit, he might be walking away from society....and all the emotional problems of trying to adapt to a way of life he doesn't want.

[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Barleywine

Now I had a random thought: putting a cup on top of the pyramid would make it "9", the number of the Moon. Perhaps the Moon in the sky is the top cup that got away and the man is pursuing it to restore his peace of mind (hey, stranger things have happened in mythology!) He's going to chase it all the way to the 9 of Cups before he catches up to it.

I personally don't equate the Moon in this card with Pisces because I tend not to mingle Trump meanings with the small cards. Astrologically, the Moon has nothing to do with Pisces or the 12th House, not by rulership, exaltation or decan (as I'm sure you know).

You are right about the Moon not being connected to the 12th house or Pisces....not sure why I was making that connection......probably has something to do with the Moon card and addictions....anyway, you guys are really stimulating my brain here...I am going to have to sit back and think about this card a bit....I'm beginning to undergo a "gestalt shift" here...(laugh) and see this card in a completely different way than having to do with "love.".... thank goodness.

[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Abrac

I think it's something for which he has fond feelings and possibly love. But to me it may not necessarily be another person; it could be, or it could be something other than another person.

I'm coming around to your point of view Abrac...just need to give it a little more thought before I do too much more speculating.

[Shardz]

We could be overlooking the obvious here with esoteric analysis. Perhaps the poor guy is simply going on a beer run and he'll be right back in 15 minutes. I know from past experiences that this can bring some sorrow and contemplation as to why he didn't stock up in the first place. Hehehe...

[Ruby Jewel]

Originally Posted by Shardz

We could be overlooking the obvious here with esoteric analysis. Perhaps the poor guy is simply going on a beer run and he'll be right back in 15 minutes. I know from past experiences that this can bring some sorrow and contemplation as to why he didn't stock up in the first place. Hehehe...

I think I woke the neighbors up laughing....I know I woke my 4 cats......we do tend to dramatize everything....I hope he doesn't get a dui or he will definitely be miserable....haha