Morgan Greer - Devil

I would like to know the opinions and comments of the study group for Morgan Greer re: the Devil card. I have had this deck for some time, have not really begun to read with it, but, I have lately started to spend time with it. I am very moody when it comes to decks.

However, I do not like this card. There are often cards I don't like in a deck; there's nothing unusual about that, but, when that happens I try to gain some different perspectives that will, hopefully, add something that I may not have considered when viewing the card.

I may also be really influenced by Lee Bursten's take on the card as he reviewed the Morgan Greer for Tarot Passages. Needless to say, he did not like this card.

So . . . anyone want to share what they see in it?

Thanks for you input.

TL2

Got to say, this card disturbed me a whole lot when I got this deck. Don't know if it was the ucky pukey green, but jealousy and bileous outlooks are just as off putting and just as sick. Maybe it was the ugly bottle fly, that is drawn to dead things, garbage and other shit, annoying us with it's buzzings and spreading disease, but without them, we'd be buried in dead stuff, so it serves it's purpose of turning things back into dirt and enriching the soil.

Maybe it was the eyes of the goat, that just don't seem natural...compared to most mammals. Seeing things in an unnatural way or seeing in a way we don't want to. The horns...sexuality and stubborness, using them to force your will. The goat, scapegoat, the one who was sacrificed so that it would absorb the wrath of the gods rather than the rest of us.

The candle can be what draws a moth to a flame and it's ultimate distruction or be a beacon to guide us away from the danger and illusion and back on the path.

The pentacle is not only the desires and passions of sensuality, physical and materialism, but man himself and all things of mankind, the choice to use the whole being to go beyond our baser being or continue with self destructive behaviors of one kind or another.

So after 3 years, I still think this is one butt ugly card but it's not quite as disturbing as it once was, now that I understand the whole concept of the Devil better. But that is only my opinion.

The Devil isn't a bad card, but I think it is something we fear to see within ourselves. Our imperfections and frailaty, our mortality and primitive drives, our weaknesses and desires, but we need them to grow from. Without the devil we wouldn't have the drive to survive and reproduce, we'd never have any fun or take any risks, we'd never have anything to blame our troubles or problems on. We wouldn't have that measuring stick to determine the good from the bad, love from lust, freinds from enemies, joy and sorrow, generosity and greed and so much more.

Waleswoman

Hmmm. Very insightful. I very much appreciate your input. I like the rest of the deck, so I wouldn't want this one card to keep me from exploring it. I had a deck once with Minors that I liked, but, I really found the Majors not at all to my liking. I gave that deck up. One or two unpleasant cards I try to play past.

Thanks.

TL2

I actually really like this card.

I think one of the reasons that people don't like it is because it strays so far from the symbolism in 'traditional' Devil cards. Gone are the chains, gone are the male and female figures. Most Devil cards look an awful lot like their numerological counterpart - The Lovers but this one doesn't.

I like the colours. I also like the fact that the Devil is depicted almost as a shadow. I think this gives a really good slant on this card. The colours look claustrophobic - they give you that feeling of being trapped. The shadowy goat makes me think of the shadow side of human nature which is one of the meanings of this card. Trapped by the dark side of our nature.
The inverted pentegram on the goat's head is found on most Devil cards, signifying the value of the material over the spiritual.
The green could signify jealousy; it could also signify the potential for new growth once we have worked with the shadow side

Love

Sulis xx

I like this card too. It makes a real change from the usual Devil cards.
I still think they put it in as a little shock card - I usually think of Dennis Wheatley novels, I loved them as a young adult, and the traditional 'occult' style Devil.

It reads just as well as a RWS Devil, the candle gives light to the card, the head and horns brings out fears, its an uneasy card for someone who isn't used to seeing such a Devil card, - the whole card itself is an illusion of the traditional Devil card - I'll have to find the book out, I'm sure its described as a horned skull not a goat - I'll check.

Edited:-
Ahh Sulis - yes you're right - it is a goat.

I agree. I really like this card a lot too. I like it's simplicity. And I love the coulouring. You really brought back to my memory, the 'Denis Wheatly' novel covers. I had forgotten all about them but see exactly what you mean.

LB

I have never been put off by this card. However...I do have a problem with it because it just doesn't mean anything to me. The image doesn't give me anything to work with, I feel. So when it appears in a reading, there's nothing in the image that I can draw on to interpret it. Yes, I realise as others have pointed out, there is the inverted pentacle etc. But in terms of having a reaction to the image, I just don't have one. So for that reason, if I were to change any card in this deck, I would change the Devil. Maybe I'll warm to it over time but for now, it might as well be a picture of an orange for all the good it does me

Pip

Pip - An orange? Sure you're not blocking something?

Pipistrelle said:

But in terms of having a reaction to the image, I just don't have one. So for that reason, if I were to change any card in this deck, I would change the Devil. Maybe I'll warm to it over time but for now, it might as well be a picture of an orange for all the good it does me

Click to expand...

Pipistrelle: I'm teasing you, but, an orange? How funny.

That's interesting. It's all about perspective - everything truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Let me say, that I cannot imagine what the beginning of my Tarot journey would have been like had I not had ATF to turn to as a source of information, inspiration, support re: the Tarot. This place is so cool. I'm learning so much and I'm continuously grateful for this site and the helpful contributions of it's members.

I am totally rethinking and re-evaluating this card. Unlike, Pip, I will definitely have a reaction to it, but, it will not be what it was - I'm not sure what I will glean from it, but, as I said, I've been given some things to consider as I ponder it.

Be Blessed,

TL2

Thanks, LittleBuddha, for starting this discussion group!

I find the candlelight above the goat's head interesting. We assume that a candle lights the path, but this particular one gives off a green illumination. A sort of 'false light'.

Initially I would freak when the Devil popped up in a reading, but I've begun to view it as a warning. I then look to other cards for direction on avoidance.

Reed

I find the Morgan-Greer Devil rather compelling.

In all the Rider-Waite decks the Devil appears much more iconographic than visceral. Pamela Colman Smith’s images are normally fairly good at conveying emotion – the sense of carefree abandon found in the Fool, the sense of loving mastery found in the Strength card, etc. But the RW Devil is very posed (if you take my meaning), and his expression seems more unhappy than anything else.

The Morgan-Greer Devil is much more evocative. My attention is immediately drawn to the animalistic intensity of the goat’s yellow eyes, and the way one is forced to imagine the rest of its powerful frame. The red of the immediate background suggests blood – not spilled blood, mind you – but arterial blood, as if one’s inner passions have been unleashed and brought to the fore. The darkness behind suggests the limit of our knowledge, and the fact that fear often begins there.

The RW Devil is the sort of image one might find in an old manuscript. The Morgan-Greer Devil is one whose eyes actually stare back at you.

It’s been said that the cards depict energies that are themselves neither good not bad. Of course my own emotional reactions to the cards tended to belie this; I often had evaluative opinions of the cards (for example, seeing the scene of humiliation in defeat in the 5 of Swords as “bad” and the scene of celebration in the 3 of Cups as “good”).

But now my tendency is to be more impartial. I think the Devil’s energy is vital to life. Animal passion is an important component of successful long-term partnerships, and its absence is keenly felt. I would wager that sublimated sexual energy has accounted for countless great works throughout the ages. More broadly, we all require passion for life to get out of bed each morning, get work done, look forward to the future, etc. This may sound strange – and I’m very much not trying to make any sort of religious comment – but I hate to think what life would be like without the Devil’s energizing influence.

Sentient