a question regarding pamela colman smith's interpetation of the tarot.

[HANDMAIDEN MI]

Hi everybody!! "78 degrees of wisdom" also is an honorarium for Pam's ART.

I was overwhelmed with the magnificence of choice with Tarot Decks. I didn't know how to pick out that first one. I just had no idea, I knew that I wanted a Tarot deck that was .... RIGHT, ha! The exact RIGHT one! My Mentor answered that question with "look the decks over and pick the one that feels right for you" If you want to study metaphysics find one with that symbolism (Language) Qabbala? Magick? "To infinity and beyond....!" Tarot is an evolved language, a tool to reach the Unknown and bring it down from the cosmos. Every deck is like a dialect .. so, first to learn the deck authors intrepretation and follow along in that system until meanings come to a conscious understanding. As it pertains to their language. Then... more decks... more history... more knowledge, more Languages and using other systems... experience, subjectivity in intuition, opening perspective... growing in psychic skills, it is simple ascension. I think traditionally that Tarot would be based, formally based maybe in numbers... zero/Fool one/Magician, on up to 21 with a Jung ideology for archetypes. I definately feel his contribution for Tarot a genius one as I do for Rider-Waite writer and artist intrepretations.

Ms. Ae

[BemboBimbo]

I wish to thank Robert and everyone else who replied to, and encouraged, me. I wish I had more time to spend here, as it is a remarkable and grounded site, and my references and weblinks are piling up way too fast. Meanwhile - who exactly is Berti? It seems he edited a museum catalogue on a Tarot exhibition - does he actually work for a museum? Doesn't seem like such a thing would be possible in American museums.
Bembo Bimbo

Originally Posted by le pendu

BemboBimbo,

Welcome to Aeclectic, you're already adding to the vast knowledge here, thank you! I haven't heard of this book by Sofia Di Vincenzo and Giordano Berti, but Berti seems well respected by many folks here whose opinons I admire.

best,
robert

[BemboBimbo]

I meant to thank you also for your links and commentary and to inquire more about Berti's background. - BB

Cerulean

Originally Posted by Cerulean

1. This thread discusses speculation of Sola Busca as a prototype:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...ght=sola+busca

2. This has a bit more about the book:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...ght=sola+busca

In the second thread, there's a link to a review of the Sola Busca and Michael Hurst's commentary of the original Sola Busca black and white plates (I believe).

When we look at Berti's writing in the book, his introduction is describing card editions of Ferrarese engraving. Maybe I read too much into him distancing himself from the writers of the Sola Busca book playful ideas of the game; noting the plates are colored, later titled by an unknown hand; and the idea the illustrations might be 19th century reproductions.

The partial excerpts I've read of the Boiardo poem is not as a player of such card games, so I'm probably less inclined to see the similarities of the Sola Busca structure with the characters in the M.M. Boiardo poem!

However if you are hungry for details in the Ferarra era, of course I say it is an interesting edition to a research library. But of course I'd save my other Ferarra texts first...(just an opinion).
--------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to see Pamela Colman Smiths line-work more with the Japanesque graphics of the 1890's and early 1900s...someone was kind enough to show me a copy of an instruction book from one of her Pratt Institute teachers, Arthur Wesley Dow. From what I've seen, I saw PCS linework that felt more in common with illustrators such as Edmund Dulac, a friend of Yeats, and even Aubrey Beardsley. For a very short time, I had hand-tinted prints from the PCS' Green Sheaf, but it's been allocated to another museum-oriented collection now...

...and that linework style works for me on many different levels, possibly more so after I look at Waite's descriptions because there is something both of him and of her there. Did you know A. Beardsley would draw small birdlike symbols to indicate the outdoors to people? A kind of tiny shorthand detail that I like in PCS' work in many skyscapes that also include rolling clouds...

Best wishes!

Cerulean

[Cerulean]

Giordano Berti is a consultant for Lo Scarabeo in Italy and as co-authored or provided introductions to Italian museum exhibitions of historical tarot games and tarocchi. I have a few of the Lo Scarabeo books he did in Italian and also one museum catalogue with Italian commentary. He has a website, if you are interested.

Among the English translations that Lo Scarabeo have as of now, Berti has looked at the Paul Christian historic writings for the Egyptian style of tarots and also commentary related to the Visconti--both books are available through the more expensive book-deck kits for the Egyptian Tarots (Sylvana Alasia is the artist) and Visconti Gold.

Best wishes.

Cerulean

[BemboBimbo]

Thank you, Cerulean. Yes, I'd love Berti's website address. What is Lo Scarabeo? And do you mean modern Egyptian style or more authentic Thoth-related. Which also reminds me (though I should search other threads) - where did Crowley/Golden Dawn claim to get their "Book of Thoth" from? A very simple answer will do!
- BB

Originally Posted by Cerulean

Giordano Berti is a consultant for Lo Scarabeo in Italy and as co-authored or provided introductions to Italian museum exhibitions of historical tarot games and tarocchi. I have a few of the Lo Scarabeo books he did in Italian and also one museum catalogue with Italian commentary. He has a website, if you are interested.

Among the English translations that Lo Scarabeo have as of now, Berti has looked at the Paul Christian historic writings for the Egyptian style of tarots and also commentary related to the Visconti--both books are available through the more expensive book-deck kits for the Egyptian Tarots (Sylvana Alasia is the artist) and Visconti Gold.

Best wishes.

Cerulean

[BemboBimbo]

Thank you, Cerulean. Yes, I'd love Berti's website address. What is Lo Scarabeo? And do you mean modern Egyptian style or more authentic Thoth-related. Which also reminds me (though I should search other threads) - where did Crowley/Golden Dawn claim to get their "Book of Thoth" from? A very simple answer will do!
- BB

Originally Posted by Cerulean

Giordano Berti is a consultant for Lo Scarabeo in Italy and as co-authored or provided introductions to Italian museum exhibitions of historical tarot games and tarocchi. I have a few of the Lo Scarabeo books he did in Italian and also one museum catalogue with Italian commentary. He has a website, if you are interested.

Among the English translations that Lo Scarabeo have as of now, Berti has looked at the Paul Christian historic writings for the Egyptian style of tarots and also commentary related to the Visconti--both books are available through the more expensive book-deck kits for the Egyptian Tarots (Sylvana Alasia is the artist) and Visconti Gold.

Best wishes.

Cerulean

[Cerulean]

1. Yes, I'd love Berti's website address.

http://www.giordanoberti.it/index.htm

Click on the red-white-blue (British) flag for English.

2. What is Lo Scarabeo?

Lo Scarabeo is a publisher of tarot cards and also has a web site. Giordano Berti's site has links to Lo Scarabeo--there's a flag symbol for English so you can read the site information in English as well.

Catalog
http://www.loscarabeo.com/catalogo2004/home.htm

Main Lo Scarabeo site
www.loscarabeo.com

3.And do you mean modern Egyptian style or more authentic Thoth-related?

Traditional ancient Egyptian style--here's a few links.

Here's the deck version without the book:
http://www.learntarot.com/eydesc.htm

Here's the kit with book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...sim/aeclectic/

(I did a customer review on amazon.com of the kit)

Those who have studied the Golden Dawn better than I can probably say how they came up with the naming "Book of Thoth". At the moment I cannot remember why.

Best wishes,

Cerulean "Mari"

[BemboBimbo]

Thanks again, Cerulean Mari. It seems like you answered more than 4 questions but I haven't gotten my numerology down! I'm sure I'll be back with more after checking the sites.

Best wishes,
Bembo Bimbo

[Tabris]

I do believe there exists an objectiv truth - how else could we measure our success within the spiritual area?
The Rider-Waite deck (just as many other decks) were made with particual care concerning the colours and symbols that were used for each card. Arthur Edward Waite wrote a book about this deck, explaining the symbolism and meaning of each card.

I do not doubt that one - through dedicated study and use - can find additional meanings to the cards, but I find that the problem usually is people neglecting to read and understand Waites intentions with the deck because they are not interested in Cabbalah or Golden Dawn. Instead, they rely on beginner's guide-books and their own intuition.
If you are a beginner ("newbie"), how can you tell if your meanings of a card is true intuition or just your own feelings and association? If there are no objectiv truth, what is the point of using a tarot deck with universal symbolism?

[Moongold]

Originally Posted by Tabris

I do believe there exists an objectiv truth - how else could we measure our success within the spiritual area?
The Rider-Waite deck (just as many other decks) were made with particual care concerning the colours and symbols that were used for each card. Arthur Edward Waite wrote a book about this deck, explaining the symbolism and meaning of each card.

I do not doubt that one - through dedicated study and use - can find additional meanings to the cards, but I find that the problem usually is people neglecting to read and understand Waites intentions with the deck because they are not interested in Cabbalah or Golden Dawn. Instead, they rely on beginner's guide-books and their own intuition.
If you are a beginner ("newbie"), how can you tell if your meanings of a card is true intuition or just your own feelings and association? If there are no objectiv truth, what is the point of using a tarot deck with universal symbolism?

Greetings Tabris ~

You have touched on a very old debate . Waite's symbols are by no means original. And there is some debate about how much of the RWS came from Waite and how much from Pamela Colman Smith.

Some of the RWS cards were very much based on the Sola Busca Ancient Enlightened Tarot for example and you'll find discussions about this in other threads in the RWS Forum.

If there is objective truth in tarot, not many of us have found it and the deck creators themselves would be reluctant to claim it. Like you, however, I think it is important to know and understand the deck creator's vision.

Moongold