Marseilles Decks: Ace of Cups

Hellooooooooooo out there.

Have we discussed this bizarre card before? I am looking at the Camoin Ace of Cups. What is it? The city of Jerusalem? The gates of Babylon? Constantinople? I was expecting the Ace to look more like the holy grail. It bears an uncanny relationship to the strange object held by the RWCS Queen of Cups.

Here are some other Aces of Cups that are more like fountains.

i think the ace of cups looks like that because the sute of cups was originaly asosiated with the chirch.
the sutes where suposed to represent the 4 diferent classes.

swords~aristocraci
cups~the chirch
coins~bourgoisi
sticks~the working class(farmers etc)

BoomVoom

woops forgot!

so the ace of cups is suposed to have a chirch on it.

the sute is a cup, precicely because of the grayl and the comunal chalis.

It's a cup, a tabernacle, a tavern, a 6-towered castle ...

Quoting from the first bit of the description of the Ace of Cups in Alain Bocher's interesting (but not very useful for divination) _Les cahiers du tarot_, volume I, at pages 296-7:

"Ce n'est plus une coupe que nous avons devant nous, mais un véritable tabernacle. C'est-à-dire un semblant de taverne ! (un endroit où l'on trouve à boire ...)

"Dans cette taverne-ci nous retrouverons pas n'importe quel boisson. Trois flots s'en échappent, jaillissant de la base d'un castelet. Trois sources de régéneration, faites de FEU de VIE comme le signalent les motifs triangulés de la base de la coupe.

"Le castelet comprend six tours, pour bien nous montrer que c'est bien ici le Grand Passage, et dès que nous aurons passé le porche secret, la MANDORLE, (dès que nous nous serons invaginés!), nous nous retrouverons au coeur même de la VIE."

Indeed, could be the medieval concept of what Constantinople looked like? The Ace has often reminded me of Caernarfon Castle in Wales, and indeed, I found out (on TV) that the latter was said to have been modeled on Theodosian Walls around Constantinople http://www.medieval-life.co.uk/issue9.htm Another useless factoid: The architect of Caernarfon was one "Master James of St George" a Savoyard who was responsible for a number of "pied a terres" (or rather castles!) around EU and Switzerland - notably Sion. http://www.beausmith.com/europe/20011005.php
Darned Suisses get everywhere.

Doubtless of NO REAL relevancy, but one is impressed just how these guys got around in medieval times... and how many images they had in common.

Macavity

Thank you BoomVoom, Rusty Neon, Macavity! (Rusty Neon, I am going to translate that passage for the non-francophones -- or come to think of it, pretty much everyone one this forum speaks french, non? -- well, I'll will put the english up...in a minute...unless someone else gets to it first. ;-)

Thanks for finding my ideas not so off-the-wall Macavity! Doesn't it look Byzantine though?

I drew the Ace of Cups in a reading for myself today and went in search of anything I could find out about it - which is why I'm here.... Yes please firemaiden could you translate Rusty Neons post and if anyone else has more info about this card I would be grateful

I have the Hadar and what I'm curious about are the diamond in the middle of the building and the bird on the base of the cup. I also see the red disc shape under the building as being very sunset-like for some reason. Any thoughts anyone?

Moonbow*

Re: It's a cup, a tabernacle, a tavern, a 6-towered castle ...

Translation:

• This is no longer a cup which we have before us, but a veritable tabernacle. That is to say, a kind of tavern. (a place to to get drinks)
  
  In this tavern here, we don't find just any old drink. Three streams flow from it, spewing from the base of a little castle. Three sources of regeneration, made of the FIRE of LIFE as signaled by the triangular motives at the base of the cup.
  
  The little castle is made of six towers, to make very clear to us that it is the Great Passage, and as soon as we will have passed through the secret portal, the MANDORLA (as soon as we have penetrated the vagina) we wil find ourselves at the very heart of LIFE

What is a mandorla? A search in google reveals it is 1) the italian word for almond 2) another name for the Vesica Piscis symbol

The feminine reference is explained in this on-line article by Brian Jensen:
Mandorla, ancient symbol of wholeness :

During the medieval times, the almond was interpreted as a symbol of the embryo enclosed in the uterus. The form of the almond which suggests a stylized vulva may have contributed to such an interpretation(Biederman, 1994).

Click to expand...

The whole article is fascinating and very relevant.

See also What is a Mandorla?

p.s. Moonbow*, thank you sooo much for reviving this thread. I had completely forgotten about it.

firemaiden, thanks for the translation and the information and links. This spread of just three cards today has lead me to alot of reading, research and learning. Great!

Moonbow*

Great! I love it when old threads are dragged up. Thanks for translating Bocher's text, firemaiden. I like Bocher - he has studied Tarot intensively, and combined with his wild imagination, it makes for interesting reading.

This is such a beautiful card. Quite stunning.

firemaiden, to get back to your original post - I do believe that the top of the Ace of Cups represents Heavenly Jerusalem (although there are a few gates missing - but perhaps let's not be sticklers for detail, huh?).

It could also, and at the same time, be the Holy Grail.

The Cup is divided into three parts - again we find the Trinity.

This card is definitely about Love. And only love. Kléa in his book called "Au Fil de l'Arcane" says that the Ace of Cups is the real House of God (Maison Dieu) ................ where the human heart has become a Temple.

I find this card so rich and so full of meaning that I sometimes wonder if it shouldn't be a Major Arcana - I would see it coming just after Judgement and before the World.

Moonbow*: I'll take out my Hadar tomorrow and look at the details you mention and see if I come up with any bright ideas. Of course, the precious stone you are mentioning could refer to the precious stones that are on the foundations of the Celestial Jerusalem which is mentioned in Revelations.

Oh, the red disk you mention. I think it is the divine energy needed to get to Heaven from Earth. But I will think more of this.