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Noubaguy 
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Arrow Astrological signs in court cards?


I have read around in the threads a few times, people looking at court cards and associating them with diffrent astrological signs, and that way being able to recognise who is being represented in the card. Is there a "clear" astrological sign/court card relationship outline that everyone follows?



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LittleWing 
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im not sure if it would be-

all wands fire, all swords air, etc...

or - all kings pentacles, all queens cups etc......
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Macavity 
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I don't believe there is one universal method. Most of the candidates are discussed in article: http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/387 . If you prefer books, I found Lon Milo DuQuette's "The Chicken Qabalah" gave the most logical and well presented why and wherefor of the assignments of courts and minors with the zodiac - althought it was (primarily) about the subject of the title. On his (now revamped) site, Paul Hughes-Barlow discusses much on the realtionship of tarot with astrology e.g. http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/attrib.htm

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Last edited by Macavity; 26-05-2003 at 06:40.
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Noubaguy 
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Arrow


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT LINK! Exactly what i was looking for



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Minderwiz 
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I think the short answer is No

I have seen systems based on elements and modalities

Wands = Fire
Swords = Air
Cups = Water
Pentacles = Earth

King = Fixed sign
Queen = Cardinal Sign
Knight = Mutable Sign
Page = quality of the sign.

Thus the King of Wands is Leo - the Fixed Fire sign.

However there are other versions, with King and Qeen reversed and of course some decks reverse Wands and Swords in terms of elements.

I'm not happy with these systems - I have always felt that the King of Cups was more Pisces, even down to the fish motif on the card, so you are better going by what you feel.



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Rusty Neon 
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As Macavity notes, there is no one system of astrological correspondences in contemporary Anglo-American tarot tradition for the court cards. However, the Golden Dawn system (as described in the supertarot site and in the Hulse article) is one of the most common among tarotists of the contemporary Anglo-American tarot tradition that use an established system rather than their own personal system of correspondences.
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jmd 
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I tend to agree, and it is worth noting that the Austral-NewZealand tradition tends to also reflect the same one the Anglo-American one follows

Though there are exceptions...

As for any of the cards, both individually and grouped, it is worth reflecting on not only what others have said and why (whether it be posts or books), but also consider both the images and the set of images.

With regards to the Court cards, there are, of course, sixteen. The number of signs in the zodiac is twelve. The number of planets varies according to whether one uses its astronomical classification, its traditional usage, and which are to be included in such considerations (for example, Pluto and Cheiron). Nonetheless, there certainly appears no clear-cut correlation, hence one of the reasons for its variation amongst authors: they are attempts at reconciling two systems which maybe just don't meld that easily.

As various systems have already been mentioned, I will not repeat them here. To be sure, one aspect they usually have in common is an elemental correlation: once one has determined a fourfold correlation with the elements, and how these also relate to the sequence of Page, Knight, Queen and King (and its variations), and also how these relate to Swords, Cups, Coins and Sticks (and its variations), then some astrological sequences become feasible.

Personally, I do not normally relate the courts with astrological considerations (though this may actually occur during a reading in a specific situation), and tend to prefer to view the Courts as representating psychological dispositions at play in the situation at hand. This is one of the very rare instances in which I make use of Jungian-influenced classifications, correlating the Courts to the MBTI... as this has been discussed elsewhere, and deviates from the thread and this already quite long post, I'll leave it here...
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LittleWing 
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if you know enough about astrology - it may be better just to figure out for yourself what you see each person(court card) as. this way - you are likely to agree.

perhaps we should list what we think

for me (i use cosmic tarot) = K wands = aries
Q wands = aries / leo
Prince wands = leo
princess wands = saggitarius

K cups = pisces
Q cups = cancer
Prince cups = scorpio
Princess cups = pisces

k swords = gemini
Q swords = libra
Prince swords=gemini
princess swords = aquarius

K pentacles=capricorn
Q pentacles = taurus
Prince pentacles= taurus
Princess pentacles = virgo

as well as what i have listed here - i still see the Queens to have alot of water, the kings to have fire, the princes to have fire, and the princesses to have air
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Keslynn 
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I do use astrology in connection with the courts but in a different way than people have listed here. I associate wands = fire, swords = air, cups = water, pentacles = earth. However, I look at the signs as a group. For example, if I pull a Queen of Wands, I'll probably say "this is a person who is probably a fire sign or behaves like one," but I don't specify which one. I personally think that they can change according to how mature a person is or even what their mood is at the time. A well-behaved Leo adult would probably be the King of Wands, yes. But a childish, bossy younger Leo, well that's a different story. I couldn't associate with the dignity and usefulness of a king. I would be more likely to assign the younger person as a Knight or a Page.

So I pretty much use the elements but not so much individual signs.

Kes



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LittleWing 
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i dont strictly read the list that i posted above - i just did this for the post - what i would think they would be
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