Celtic Cross Question

Keslynn · 15-09-2004

Yes, I am one of those horrid peope who actually likes the Celtic Cross.

I have been using it since I first started tarot and my meanings for the positions have changed for me. I'm in the process right now of re-examining the top and bottom cards of the cross section. How does everyone read that top and bottom card? What do those positions mean for you?

The bottom card I usually read as what's underlying the question, not necessarily subconscious. Many of the people I've read for are at least aware of that influence.

The top card I've been reading as the best possible outcome, but it hasn't been feeling completely right to call it that. Using the position in that way seems to undermine the wonderful polarity you can get from reading it in contrast/comparison to the bottom card. Any suggestions for new position meanings I can experiment with? The books I've been reading don't really have useful alternatives.

Kes

blackroseivy · 15-09-2004

Funny thing,you are addressing *exactly* what I *don't* like about that spread! Those positions are so vague! I say that the first is the "foundation"; that puts it in the past but also the present. The other "crowns" the reading. I know, I know, what does *that* mean?? The real bugaboo of this spread to me!! I didn't know that my position was a popular one, however - how is it that you know that it is a disliked spread? Have people talked on here about it? Well *anyway*, I like to say that the "crowning" card is an influence that *may* come into play, something to be looked out for. It may be a bad card, in which case following your method would make it tricky, indeed.

Just some thoughts!

**wildchilde** · 15-09-2004

Hi Keslynn

I don't think there is anything abnormal about liking the Celtic Cross spread! It can be a very insightful spread to use and also one that tends to connect with querrents on a symbolic level by the positioning of the cards.

I personally never really connected that much with the "standard" spread design...however, I did find one in The Sacred Rose Tarot that tends to be more "circular" in it's design that you might wish to try.

...........6.........
...10....1....11..
5.........2........7
....9.....3.....8..
...........4.........

In the SR spread, the "crowning card"...6...is known as the immediate future. Still sort of a vague meaning, but possibly helpful in relation to the other cards in the spread, and certainly more helpful than "what crowns the situation".

Another thought is you may also wish to look at the "crowning card" as the SUPERconscious...that which affects the situation from above as well as below. By looking at it from this angle, the meaning of this card is what ties the querrent to the earthly realm as well as the spiritual realm. Sort of the "gateway" card that connects the mundane cards (minors) in the spread to the magical cards (majors).

Hope this helps.

Mesara · 15-09-2004

The way that I learned the Celtic Cross was that the top card represented the goal or destiny of the seeker and the bottom card represented the recent past.

I have to say that I don't really enjoy this spread all that much; but Ive never really been able to figure out why. Something about it has always bothered me; but maybe I just need to play with it some more.

**Anna** · 15-09-2004

The Celtic Cross spread was in my first ever tarot book. A book recomended for complete begginers, which I was, and this was the spread I was to learn first!! I think its too much to ask of a new student, to ask them to take on 10 cards and begin to see nuances and subtle connections.

Its like asking a begining guitar player to begin with Jimi Hendrix, when what you should really learn is 3 chords. Because a vast ammount of songs can be played with just 3 chords.Just as the vast majority of questions can be answered with 3 cards!

I have suspicions about the celtic cross...that if it were not called the celtic cross it would not appear in so many begginners books. If it were called something like "the useful 10 card challenge", people would discover it later on, and would not have the kind of headaches that I had trying to learn and master it.

This is my beef with the spread and the authors.

That said, I like it a lot, lol. I use it quite a lot in face to face readings because it seems to cover all the bases thouroughly, and people like to see a lot of cards on the table. This is the one big spread that I feel confident with.

I read the top card as the "lesson" that is being learned through going through this situation...or "what is above"
I read the bottom card as "what is below the surface"

Which links in to the Universal Law of "As above, so below", and I like that it adds that spiritual dimension to the spread

Keslynn · 17-09-2004

Thanks for all the information! I really appreciate the insight. I'll have to give a few of them a try, but I think I'm gravitating toward the idea of "the lesson to be learned."

I'm interested to see what happens...

Kes

Hawks_girl_dove · 17-09-2004

I read the top card as the "lesson" that is being learned through going through this situation...or "what is above"
I read the bottom card as "what is below the surface"

Which links in to the Universal Law of "As above, so below", and I like that it adds that spiritual dimension to the spread

__________________

I really like this answer. It spoke simply and more eloquently than i could have probably tried ot put it. Nice way with words... and i like that definition, as well as the Celtic Cross spread. Just my humble opinion.

***MeeWah*** · 17-09-2004

The Celtic Cross is a personal favourite & especially for the in-depth readings. Sometimes I use just the cross portion.

For the purposes of this discussion, omitting cards #1 & 2. Referring to clock face to delineate positions.

3. (12:00): Conscious awareness; that which is apparent.

4. (06:00): Unconscious awareness; past foundation or far past (far past pertaining to past lives &/or karma)

5. (09:00): Recent past to yesterday (may overlap present).

6. (03:00): Immediate future or new situation developing.

BlueLotus · 17-09-2004

I have also come to like the Celtic Cross spread because of its depth and clear answers.

Following a clockwise order, I read 3 as the foundation (positioned at 06:00 ), 4 as the recent past, 5 ( at 12:00 ) as the present, and 6 ( at 3:00 position ) as the probable future.

7,8,9, and 10 would be the querent, surroundings, hopes and fears, and the outcome - in this order-, this last (10) card I usually compare and pair with #5 and #6 above, and try to make a connection.

**Major Tom** · 17-09-2004

There's a thread on the Tarot Spreads board about everyone's personal take on the Celtic Cross .

I've moved this thread to the Tarot Spreads board because I think it belongs there.

Major Tom
Co-moderator, Using Tarot Cards

Keslynn Citizen Join Date: 17 May 2002 Location: DE, USA Posts: 1,155	Celtic Cross Question Yes, I am one of those horrid peope who actually likes the Celtic Cross. I have been using it since I first started tarot and my meanings for the positions have changed for me. I'm in the process right now of re-examining the top and bottom cards of the cross section. How does everyone read that top and bottom card? What do those positions mean for you? The bottom card I usually read as what's underlying the question, not necessarily subconscious. Many of the people I've read for are at least aware of that influence. The top card I've been reading as the best possible outcome, but it hasn't been feeling completely right to call it that. Using the position in that way seems to undermine the wonderful polarity you can get from reading it in contrast/comparison to the bottom card. Any suggestions for new position meanings I can experiment with? The books I've been reading don't really have useful alternatives. Kes __________________ "You should be careful what you wish for 'cause every one of us has the devil inside" -Incubus

15-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #1

blackroseivy Citizen Join Date: 20 Nov 2003 Location: Southern Tier NYS Posts: 8,945	Funny thing,you are addressing exactly what I don't like about that spread! Those positions are so vague! I say that the first is the "foundation"; that puts it in the past but also the present. The other "crowns" the reading. I know, I know, what does that mean?? The real bugaboo of this spread to me!! I didn't know that my position was a popular one, however - how is it that you know that it is a disliked spread? Have people talked on here about it? Well anyway, I like to say that the "crowning" card is an influence that may come into play, something to be looked out for. It may be a bad card, in which case following your method would make it tricky, indeed. Just some thoughts! __________________ OMNIA EXEUNT IN MYSTERIUM

15-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #2

wildchilde Shaman and Seeker Join Date: 13 Jul 2004 Location: where the sand meets the sea Posts: 1,046	Hi Keslynn I don't think there is anything abnormal about liking the Celtic Cross spread! It can be a very insightful spread to use and also one that tends to connect with querrents on a symbolic level by the positioning of the cards. I personally never really connected that much with the "standard" spread design...however, I did find one in The Sacred Rose Tarot that tends to be more "circular" in it's design that you might wish to try. ...........6......... ...10....1....11.. 5.........2........7 ....9.....3.....8.. ...........4......... In the SR spread, the "crowning card"...6...is known as the immediate future. Still sort of a vague meaning, but possibly helpful in relation to the other cards in the spread, and certainly more helpful than "what crowns the situation". Another thought is you may also wish to look at the "crowning card" as the SUPERconscious...that which affects the situation from above as well as below. By looking at it from this angle, the meaning of this card is what ties the querrent to the earthly realm as well as the spiritual realm. Sort of the "gateway" card that connects the mundane cards (minors) in the spread to the magical cards (majors). Hope this helps. __________________ ~wildchilde "It is a mathematical fact that the casting of this pebble from my hand alters the center of gravity of the universe." -Thomas Carlyle

15-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #3

Anna Citizen Join Date: 09 Jul 2004 Location: England Posts: 3,252	The Celtic Cross spread was in my first ever tarot book. A book recomended for complete begginers, which I was, and this was the spread I was to learn first!! I think its too much to ask of a new student, to ask them to take on 10 cards and begin to see nuances and subtle connections. Its like asking a begining guitar player to begin with Jimi Hendrix, when what you should really learn is 3 chords. Because a vast ammount of songs can be played with just 3 chords.Just as the vast majority of questions can be answered with 3 cards! I have suspicions about the celtic cross...that if it were not called the celtic cross it would not appear in so many begginners books. If it were called something like "the useful 10 card challenge", people would discover it later on, and would not have the kind of headaches that I had trying to learn and master it. This is my beef with the spread and the authors. That said, I like it a lot, lol. I use it quite a lot in face to face readings because it seems to cover all the bases thouroughly, and people like to see a lot of cards on the table. This is the one big spread that I feel confident with. I read the top card as the "lesson" that is being learned through going through this situation...or "what is above" I read the bottom card as "what is below the surface" Which links in to the Universal Law of "As above, so below", and I like that it adds that spiritual dimension to the spread __________________ "Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there..." ~ Rumi "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" ~ JK Rowling

15-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #5

Keslynn Citizen Join Date: 17 May 2002 Location: DE, USA Posts: 1,155	Thanks for all the information! I really appreciate the insight. I'll have to give a few of them a try, but I think I'm gravitating toward the idea of "the lesson to be learned." I'm interested to see what happens... Kes __________________ "You should be careful what you wish for 'cause every one of us has the devil inside" -Incubus

17-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #6

Mesara Citizen Join Date: 09 Sep 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 654	The way that I learned the Celtic Cross was that the top card represented the goal or destiny of the seeker and the bottom card represented the recent past. I have to say that I don't really enjoy this spread all that much; but Ive never really been able to figure out why. Something about it has always bothered me; but maybe I just need to play with it some more.

15-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #4

Hawks_girl_dove Citizen Join Date: 02 Sep 2004 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 289	I read the top card as the "lesson" that is being learned through going through this situation...or "what is above" I read the bottom card as "what is below the surface" Which links in to the Universal Law of "As above, so below", and I like that it adds that spiritual dimension to the spread __________________ I really like this answer. It spoke simply and more eloquently than i could have probably tried ot put it. Nice way with words... and i like that definition, as well as the Celtic Cross spread. Just my humble opinion. __________________ ~Felicitous Dove~ "Do not fear being called eccentric. For all that is now accepted, was once considered to be eccentric."

17-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #7

*MeeWah* Fortune Teller Moderator Join Date: 05 Aug 2001 Location: Virginia, U.S.A. Posts: 6,947	The Celtic Cross is a personal favourite & especially for the in-depth readings. Sometimes I use just the cross portion. For the purposes of this discussion, omitting cards #1 & 2. Referring to clock face to delineate positions. 3. (12:00): Conscious awareness; that which is apparent. 4. (06:00): Unconscious awareness; past foundation or far past (far past pertaining to past lives &/or karma) 5. (09:00): Recent past to yesterday (may overlap present). 6. (03:00): Immediate future or new situation developing. __________________ LIGHTLOVEPEACE

17-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #8

BlueLotus Citizen Join Date: 06 Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere in Time Posts: 26,827	I have also come to like the Celtic Cross spread because of its depth and clear answers. Following a clockwise order, I read 3 as the foundation (positioned at 06:00 ), 4 as the recent past, 5 ( at 12:00 ) as the present, and 6 ( at 3:00 position ) as the probable future. 7,8,9, and 10 would be the querent, surroundings, hopes and fears, and the outcome - in this order-, this last (10) card I usually compare and pair with #5 and #6 above, and try to make a connection. __________________ "And when it rains on your parade, look up rather than down. Without the rain, there would be no rainbow." ~ Jerry Chin ~ Last edited by BlueLotus; 18-09-2004 at 14:12.

17-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #9

Major Tom Papa Toad Join Date: 06 Aug 2001 Location: Suffolk, England Posts: 8,902	There's a thread on the Tarot Spreads board about everyone's personal take on the Celtic Cross . I've moved this thread to the Tarot Spreads board because I think it belongs there. Major Tom Co-moderator, Using Tarot Cards __________________ "We are all free to do whatever we want to do...Isn't that a great way to run a Universe?" from 'Illusions' by Richard Bach "Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility." Eleanor Roosevelt

17-09-2004	Ask a Professional Tarot Reader Top #10

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