Court Cards and Myers-Briggs

Today was the first time I'd ever come across the idea of corresponding the Court Cards to the Myers-Briggs Personality Type Indicators but it caught my interest. The way the author I was reading suggested it is as follows:

King of Wands- ENTJ
Queen of Wands- INTJ
Knight of Wands- ENTP
Page of Wands- INTP
King of Cups- ENFJ
Queen of Cups- INFJ
Page of Cups- INFP
King of Swords- ESTJ
Queen of Swords- ISTJ
Knight of Swords- ESTP
Page of Swords- ISTP
King of Pentacles- ESFJ
Queen of Pentacles- ISFJ
Knight of Pentacles- ESFP
Page of Pentacles- ISFP

I need to know a lot more about the Myers-Briggs system than I do right now, but this struck me as a really phenomenal way to help interpret the court cards. What do other people think?

Laurel

Oh cool, this is definitely an interesting topic!

A few months ago jmd answered my post about significators using the MBTI/Myers-Briggs for court cards.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=1516&highlight=MBTI

They are similar to the ones you posted above so I'd love to know what author plotted all that out!

Thanks in advance!

As Kirali mentioned, there have been a couple of threads on this topic in the archives... but renewed discussion always adds spice and life to what should always remain fresh - so thank you.

The correlations I gave are, by the way, different, but instead of re-listing them, refer you to my post in this thread.

Thank you for those links, they were helpful to look at. The attributions I posted came from Linda Gail Walters, who explains her reasoning at http://members.cts.com/king/s/saoirse/TarotCourtCards.html and why she disagrees with Mary Greer.

Tonight, I'm going to compare notes and start looking at the topic seriously. I see it as applicable to more than just significators (which I don't really use much), but need to spend the hours researching and note taking and contemplating and experimenting to come to a real decision... which of course, might change over time any way.

Laurel

I too found this discussion really interesting and have had a quick look at the links to print off and read at my leisure.

I guess it is logical to think about connecting MBTI types with Tarot, given the fact that MBTI is based on Jungian typology and the connections between archetypes and the Tarot. Being comparatively new to the study of Tarot I hadn't thought of cards being assigned to personality types. I struggle with the notion a little.

I guess my reservations are quite personal and I'm willing to listen to any comments. The fundamental question is *Why do we need to make the comparison?* We Westerners seem to need to analyse everything against a scientific paradigm and one of the attractions of Tarot is its mystery, the fact that it relies so much on intuition, lateral thinking, mythology and those quite intangible aspects of the way we think and exist in this world.

The Tarot doesn't need science for credibility, does it?

There is an explicit ranking in the Court cards that doesn't exist in MBTI, although I read some comments on this in one of the links. I think the author has stretched MBTI material a little to come up with the classifications s/he arrived at.

Someone also made a comment about the connection between this idea and Significators. My albeit imperfect understanding of Significators is that they are very subjective, much more so than the MBTI classifications.

Anyway, my real point is in Para 3. Do we need to travel this road? I guess it is only academic and tossing around ideas is a good pass time. I don't mean that the discussion shouldn't occur but simply groan a little internally at the thought of the Tarot and MBTI being compared.

A totally INFP type........

Moongold

Perhaps I sound a little too negative in the above post. Sunday morning after doing a lot of tedious analysis for work. Whatever happened to weekends and careless relaxation??

It is an interesting line of enquiry, although I guess I have some hesitation about comparing the Tarot and Myers Briggs Type Indicator. Look forward to hearing more about other people's ideas.

We have found the MBTI useful where I work from the point of view of understanding differences and creating a neutral space wherein conflict can be understood and managed differently. The test can also be a useful personal and professional development tool.

Good wishes,

Moongold

Moongold said:

We have found the MBTI useful where I work from the point of view of understanding differences and creating a neutral space wherein conflict can be understood and managed differently. The test can also be a useful personal and professional development tool.

Click to expand...

You didn't come across inpolite in your first post and I'm glad you took the time to write both responses- very understandable point of view. The reason I'm personally intruiged at the MBTI/Court Card possibilities is because the tarot can ~also~ be an extremely useful personal and professional development tool and good aeclectic esoterics can and will steal from anything that works.

I'm finding some fascinating personal meaning out of looking at individual MBTI priorities and assigned astrological or tarot meanings and I think that it would be very easy (and useful) to design a deck where MBTI was one of the primary attributions to the Court cards.

MBTI isn't much different than many "occult" traditions, which also explore why and how individuals typically do what they do. Awareness of one self and one's patterns is the first step towards conscious change


Laurel

Laurel said:

I'm finding some fascinating personal meaning out of looking at individual MBTI priorities and assigned astrological or tarot meanings and I think that it would be very easy (and useful) to design a deck where MBTI was one of the primary attributions to the Court cards.

MBTI isn't much different than many "occult" traditions, which also explore why and how individuals typically do what they do. Awareness of one self and one's patterns is the first step towards conscious change

Click to expand...

Thanks Laurel

You made me smile by making the connections between MBTI and many occult traditions! I have some good memories of time spent persuading a group of mental health professionals of the value of having an MBTI. It might have been even harder to convince them had I made such associations then.

I guess MBTI could be a vehicle for personal change. Certainly the understanding that it brings can change the way one manages particular situations in professional and personal relationships.

The assumptions about gender in the correlations between the Court cards and the MBTI types and the ranking issue are challenging questions for you in the development of the deck. I guess people deal with these kinds of assumptions every day, and can be as flexible as they wish.

I'll be interested to see how you resolve these issues, but what fun! Now, in my typical Wands/INFP fashion I've rushed, in my mind, right ahead to the art work now.... Can I ask what your MBTI classification is?

I look forward to hearing more from you.

Moongold

Hey Laurel,

I've been thinking about this a lot over breakfast LOL.

Why not think outside the square as in the Osho Zen tarot. I'm not suggesting that a Zen approach is appropriate but that it might be helpful to put aside the Court card framework and construct a new one altogether. The Court cards reflect the social constructs of the 16th century anyway, and a new Tarot could reflect the social constructs of our times

This approach would deal with my concerns about ranking and gender issues. I'm not quite sure how it could be done and would need to refresh my MBTI knowledge. Giving types a higher ranking simply because they are extroverts doesn't sit well with me. Was the Myers Briggs typology developed from data from middle class people or am I being unfair? Jung developed his typology from clinical practice on a whole range of people as well as intuition. I know that is simplifying the issues but I don't have time right now to be more explicit. Whatever, it doesn't change the case for leaving aside the traditional structure of the Courts at least for the time being.

From memory there are four functions in Jungian typology: Thinking/Feeling (rational) and Sensation/Intuition (irrational). Perhaps, roughly each of the suits could be allocated to them. That has already been suggested by others, I think. Thinking: Swords; Feeling: Cups; Sensation; Pentacles; Intuition:Wands for example. You would not necessarily have to have all the Myers Briggs categories.

Anyway, you've started me thinking along these lines and that is fun. You sound as though you're really committed, and I look forward to hearing your ideas and seeing them grow.

Moongold

That's really interesting food for thought. (takes some quick notes)

Being a silly kabbalist (and we can get darn silly sometimes *g*), I like the 16 court cards as-is because it seems to me to represent the "four worlds in the four worlds" aka the four elements air, fire, water, earth inside Atziluth, Briah, Yetzirah and Assiah. Playing around with the way these things relate to the Meyers-Briggs has been fun. World-shattering or even necessarily useful outside a kabbalistic context? Nope.

Laurel