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Who did it? horary

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Ronia  Ronia is offline
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Who did it? horary


I have for the first time a horary which seeks who did make a call. The exact question included a name as I have a suspicion about who made the call: Who made this call that night, was it Him?

The chart was cast on February 4 at 11:33 am in Toronto, Regiomontanus chart.

Taurus is rising, I am Venus. The secret caller I assign to the 12th house (since I am not sure who he was), 12th is in Aries, ruled by Mars but what is more interesting is that Him whom I suspect is Mars too, the 7th being ruled by Scorpio... Normally this would be enough for me to conclude that he was indeed the secret caller.

But I'm trying to learn how to do such horaries, so I also look at some connection between the 3rd and him. 3rd is in Cancer, ruled by the Moon who is in the 12th and is separating from a conjunction to the ascendant. This, however, makes me think more that the chart shows I did receive a call by a secret caller, which I already know. Timing also seems right because it was exactly 3 months ago and the distance Asc-Moon is similar. But there is no aspect between Moon and Mars, separating one.

The suspected man's 3rd house is ruled by Saturn. Mars did have a square with Saturn while in Pisces. This is the only aspect between any 3rd house and Mars I can find. Saturn is in the 8th which is odd as no death or taxes were announced at past midnight on my birthday of all days. Saturn is ruled by Jupiter in the 6th. A colleague? That would be part of my suspicion as the man I suspect is part of my legal team (6th house clerk who works for me, albeit not directly, and Jupiter rules law).

I'm not sure if the 12th and 7th being both Mars is enough to conclude it was Him who called... Normally I would but this may be wishful thinking.

Minderwiz, please share your thoughts, this is a type of horary I've never done before and I'm not sure I'm assigning the houses right.
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This is interesting!

Without giving his name, what was the phraseology of the question?

I'm not sure of the twelfth connection as it seems more a call from an unknown (but suspected) person. If that person is in some way an enemy, then the twelfth would be a sensible choice but if it's simply a question of the phone ringing and no one on the line when you answer, I'm not sure there's an element of secrecy involved. If you got caller ID withheld, then you might argue for a secret caller, someone who doesn't want you to know their identity or location.

I think the third would be my starting point, That would make the caller's significator the Moon, which is in the twelfth house and brings it into play but not as a conscious decision on the location of the questited (unless you have good reason for suspecting a deliberate attempt to keep the identity secret or that the caller is someone who you would class as an enemy - the location of the Moon might suggest this, but only from starting from the third.

There is some circumstantial evidence for the caller being hostile, as the Ascendant is conjunt the fixed star Algol, which Lilly rates the worst one. Also the Moon's ruler, Mars is in the twelfth, (even on Regiomontanus it meets the 5 degree rule) and, as you said, it also rules the Seventh (Lilly would have taken that to indicate an open enemy) But the earlier tradition gives all enemies to the twelfth. Venus, your significator is in her exaltation in Pisces in the eleventh - hopes and aspirations - and the Moon just separating from the Ascendant is in her own exaltation. There are strong people involved in his issue - Do you suspect your ex?
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Hi Minderwiz,

It's like a mystery, isn't it? The number was local but the caller listened to my voice for a while and I hang up first. It wasn't a mistake, I'm pretty sure. And it happened right on my bday, past midnight. Later that day I found out that the man I suspect knew it was my birthday because he and specifically checked. It was a chain of events. The 12th to me is also unknown or secret people not only unknown enemies, contrary to 7th which is both known people and enemies. The 12th to me is also dark, night, before the rise of the ascendant, so to speak, and I checked quite a few similar questions I could find online, it seems the 12th is looked at. I don't think it was hostile. It sounded more like a desire to hear my voice.

Definitely not my ex. I suspect a law clerk who has a crush on me. LOL

I asked "Who made the call then, did he do it?"
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I think in your actual question you named your suspect. That tilts the question to the seventh, as you are asking about a particular person, who has a connection to you. I agree, that the nature of the call seems to suggest a wish to remain hidden (a meaning which has attached itself to the twelfth from the late medieval period) Whether the person is an enemy is not clear, though obviously you could make that the subject of a question.

If we allow X to be the person making the call, and give him the seventh (as you are asking specifically about his actions), what does the chart tell us?

Firstly we see him in the twelfth house (less than a degree away from the cusp), so we might surmise that his actions are deliberately hidden and if not calculated to harm, they might have had that effect - anonymous phone calls are classed as harassment and are often illegal. It's also likely that you know the person, because your significator Venus is in the same sign (I think I attributed it to Pisces in my first post. The relationship between these two planets has been an issue for Sharla and I replied to her on charts which had Venus in the last degrees of Pisces. Venus is about 5 degrees behind Mars in this chart but does not qualify for the five degree rule in putting it into the twelfth.

If you do know him, he's someone that you might not like particularly as Aries is the Detriment of Venus) and Mars rules the fifth house of the radical chart, so he might indeed be thinking of some form of Romance, but in both cases his placement is in Venus' Detriment, so you might well not see him in this capacity at all. (that Mars rules the fifth made me think of your ex, as having a connection to your son).

Both Mars and Venus are in the Exaltation of the Sun, which rules the radical fourth. So has he might have been involved in your search for new accomodation, or something else to do with your family. That is most likely through his own professional role, as the Radical fourth is his tenth.

Both Mars and Venus are in the Terms of Jupiter. Jupiter is a natural signifcator or the law and it rules the radical eighth and the radical twelfth. For you that could be your ex's money (probably owing) for him it could be income from services rendered (paid by his employers, who might be the contracting party).

So there's some evidence in the chart for your surmises, it depends on whether he has been closely involved in your legal affairs. It's quite possible that if he continues with this behaviour, he will bring grief and sorrow, by his actions. As I said he is on the verge of causing harassment. So if it continues you need to give him a metaphorical clip round the ear. Having done this once, he may well do it again.
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Well, yes and no. I first wondered who had made this call and why I hadn't asked sooner. And then it dawned on me I wanted to know if it had been him. I like the guy, Minderwiz. I asked horaries about him, if anything could happen.... Some of them were promising, at least. May be it wasn't him then. Too bad. If it was him, I'd find it quite cute he waited for my bday to begin and couldn't resist although not allowed to actually speak to me as he is still working for me on the case.

Overall, seems it was either someone else or the chart doesn't describe my attitude well. Or him. Although as you suggested I was in the 11th, this would fit my hopes and wishes. It would be interesting to fimd out the truth but I don't want to call the number now (I saved it). It would be odd and I don't know what to expect. I found out it's a landline, at least. They all conceal their cell phones when calling clients but this was obviously from a landline.

Could it be a child? With the 5th involved... a sily joke although it was so late in the night.
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On re-reading, both the 5th house and 4th house associations point at someone like him, they defend my son and my family as it is. This guy is closely involved, second position on the team.

I think the detriment shows that as of now, I can't take any steps or do anything. Iit doesn't necessarily make me happy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronia View Post
On re-reading, both the 5th house and 4th house associations point at someone like him, they defend my son and my family as it is. This guy is closely involved, second position on the team.

I think the detriment shows that as of now, I can't take any steps or do anything. Iit doesn't necessarily make me happy.
You know his role better than me, and from that description it looks like it fits quite well. I don't think his attention (if it is him) is likely to make you happy, quite the reverse, it's detrimental to your well being in a more general sense. I can see that you might feel that you can't say or do anything given the need for defence of yourself and your son but just be careful not to let this become characteristic of his interaction with you.
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I'll keep this in mind. To me though, in relational horaries, specifically, a detriment quite often describes a person (the planet) who cannot act upon their desires. They are stuck in a situation where they lack any ability to influence the outcome. In fall, they would be waiting for better times with more hope but in detriment they feel doomed. It would fit - due to professional duties, there is no way I could act upon me liking him. So, I'm stuck.

However, did we manage to conclude it was him or not? To get back to horary practice... To me, mostly because the ruler of the 12th and 7th is the same and it seems to me it fits the description of 4th/10th person involved, it may lean towards him. I wish I could learn the truth and update. It's the first horary of this kind I cast. I may ask a friend to dial the number and just ask for him. If it was a number where anyone related to him lives, we'd know the answer to the horary.
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I don't think you will get a complete answer from the chart but what you will get is a good description of the person concerend and any relationship to you.

From what you have said, this chart does seem to describe this person that you suspect. Taking your position, as signified by Venus. You are in the domicile of Mars (him) and thus he has power over you. Originally the domicile lord was more the equivalent of a Steward, the person running the household, and as such he, or she, has obligations to those who take the hospitality of the domicile. In other words, he might have power but he also has some obligations, to his guests.

You are right, being in Detriment shows a lack of power to influence the outcome to any degree, Or a lack of will to act (which has the same incapacitating outcome}. However the situation is not without hope. Venus still lies in the eleventh house, which is an excellent position. The eleventh house signifies hopes and aspirations and support from powerful friends.

That will not last long though, Venus will eventually pass into the twelfth house and end up without hope and in the clutches of Mars.

So you do have some hope. His professional ethics would be against harassing a client, of course there's no guarantee that professional ethics would hold but it does give some leverage. Just as the steward has to ensure that his guest is given proper hospitality, so a legal executive, even a junior one, must put his client's interests first. That seems to be your main hope and main weapon. But let him press on, then you risk his professional ethics weakening and him becoming a threat rather than an asset. (this situation has already happened, if I use Whole Sign Houses). To cope with this situation will be difficult.
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I have no doubt he won't cross any boundaries openly. He is wildly ambitious and would never risk his success for anyone. I bet my money on it. Therefore, I have no concerns he will jump on me at anytime while I am their client. LOL

It shouldn't be the case a horary to not be able tl answer a yes/no question. Did he or didn't he? shouldnt be a problem to answer. I guess I'll have to try and get a real life answer but why would we bother with horaries then?

The description fits. Surely, they have both obligations and power as their clients approach them in times of vulnerability (which also fits the detriment well) which on the other hand is the reason for the strict ethical rules. None of them would risk their license to fool around with a client. Too expensive of a mistake that would be.
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