"Devil" in Pagan decks

I hope this is in the right place.

I understand some of the concepts of the Devil in traditional tarots: Bondage to materialism/ greed/ addictions/ excess...

I cannot wrap my head around those same concepts when confronted with Pagan decks where the "Devil" is the "Horned One", "Pan", "the Guardian" or some other Horned God or a Shamanistic type image (Merlin Tarot and LLewelyn come to mind)

Can somebody please explain this to me? Am I the only one?

I think this is a fabulous question, and hits upon the symbolism and symbology of tarot. The Wiccan concept of the Horned God as found here is shared as follows:

on Wikipedia said:

For Wiccans, the Horned God is "the personification of the life force energy in animals and the wild" and is associated with the wilderness, virility and the hunt. Doreen Valiente writes that the Horned God also carries the souls of the dead to the underworld.

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That understanding of temptation at the corporeal and feral level really speaks to me. Much of the more traditional imagery or interpretations of tarot are related to Christianity, but the concepts of Christianity are older than its writings.

The existence of 'The Devil' is itself a Christian concept not shared by Wiccans, and most Neo-pagans. They would dismiss the existence of such an entity. In Greek mythology, the ruler Hades of the Underworld does not equate to the concept of Hell. This is best explained on the page on Hades found here with this quote:

on Wikipedia said:

The term hades in Christian theology is parallel to Hebrew sheol (grave or dirt-pit), and refers to the abode of the dead. The Christian concept of hell is more akin to (and communicated by) the Greek concept of Tartarus—a deep, gloomy part of hades used as a dungeon of torment and suffering.

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Hope this is helpful!

ETA: broken hyperlink repair job, LOL

Orenda said:

I think this is a fabulous question, and hits upon the symbolism and symbology of tarot. The Wiccan concept of the Horned God as found here is shared as follows:

That understanding of temptation at the corporeal and feral level really speaks to me. Much of the more traditional imagery or interpretations of tarot are related to Christianity, but the concepts of Christianity are older than its writings.

The existence of 'The Devil' is itself a Christian concept not shared by Wiccans, and most Neo-pagans. They would dismiss the existence of such an entity. In Greek mythology, the ruler Hades of the Underworld does not equate to the concept of Hell. This is best explained on the page on Hades found here with this quote:

Hope this is helpful!

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Thanks for trying Orenda!
I get WHY Pagan decks don't show a "Devil" on the cards. I have a problem relating some of the depictions on the decks relating to things that are excessive-
OK, Dionysus was excessive, partied, drank, had sex with everyone. I can relate him to the "Devil" . But I don't ever remember seeing him depicted as antlered.
I can see virility and ferral in the Druidcraft, but primal urges I relate to the Moon. Maybe I am way off base there.

Take "The Guardian" of the Merlin Tarot. My first pagan deck, and primarily the one I had in mind when I was posting the question. The card depicts a nude man in an antler cloak there are animals around. It's been a while since I looked at the card but I think he had a hand raised. To me he looks like he could be a Shaman, maybe the Hermit or Magician. OK, maybe a crazy man naked in the woods- again more Moon-ish. OK, Maybe I can buy Ferral. I can't get from "Ferral" back to "Devil".
I am back at stuck.

Even in traditional deck the Devil card is not always bad. It is also the card associated astrologically with Capricorn.

How I think of the commonality between Pagan decks and your basic RW, for example, is that in both cases the Devil/Horned One/Pan, etc all (to me) have to do with delighting in the physical, in the body, in life on Earth, in being in the human form with all its beautiful messiness. In both cases it is about letting go of inhibitions, especially those put upon you from outer society. This can be freeing, necessary release, joyful revelry, or destructive whirlwind.

hippiewitchie said:

I understand some of the concepts of the Devil in traditional tarots: Bondage to materialism/ greed/ addictions/ excess...I cannot wrap my head around those same concepts when confronted with Pagan decks where the "Devil" is the "Horned One"

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I'm in agreement with Pasara that even the Devil isn't always bad. Even in traditional decks, he can be a message to those who are too much the aesthetic that they need to enjoy and experience life more. Certainly, there is a toned down feel when he's Pan or the Horned one. But all three: Devil, Dionysus/Pan, Horned One, are male avatars. They represent that one side. Not the controlled authority of the Emperor, but the wild, in rut side. Also the ambitious side; the Horned One usually involves the story of the young stag who kills the older one to take his place and engender a child. And the Devil is a mountain goat climbing high as he can.

So the message of all these half-animal men is that this side of the masculine is good and should be honored, even enjoyed. Which is that side of us which wants to enjoy and live and reproduce. That side of us ambitious to succeed and be the winner. That side of us, even, that likes to, well, be on top. BUT, the message warns us, it's very easy to end up enslaved to that side. Wicca is very yin-yang in that way--and so is Christianity even if it assigns that yin to male figures. Both urge followers to remember the female, and not worship only the aggressive, dominating, ambitious, side. To think as much about love as sex, peace as much as fighting, about the spiritual as material.

Devil and Horned god cards remind us that it's easy to go to excess and enslave yourself to only one part of yourself, especially when that part involves pleasurable feelings. If you do enslave yourself, however, the chains were ones you chose to wear and freeing yourself from them, if that is what you wish, will also be your choice.

Obviously, the Devil is a problematic card because it carries all the baggage of that name. But like every other card in the deck--the Devil is neither good nor bad, simply a message. It urges one to be and do certain things, but not to let oneself become enslaved to such things.

Enslavement is the key here. To learn how to enjoy, use, and gain wisdom from this part of ourselves without ended up addicted to it and failing to realize that it is only half of a whole.

Does that help?

hippiewitchie said:

Thanks for trying Orenda!
I get WHY Pagan decks don't show a "Devil" on the cards. I have a problem relating some of the depictions on the decks relating to things that are excessive-
OK, Dionysus was excessive, partied, drank, had sex with everyone. I can relate him to the "Devil" . But I don't ever remember seeing him depicted as antlered.
I can see virility and ferral in the Druidcraft, but primal urges I relate to the Moon. Maybe I am way off base there.

Take "The Guardian" of the Merlin Tarot. My first pagan deck, and primarily the one I had in mind when I was posting the question. The card depicts a nude man in an antler cloak there are animals around. It's been a while since I looked at the card but I think he had a hand raised. To me he looks like he could be a Shaman, maybe the Hermit or Magician. OK, maybe a crazy man naked in the woods- again more Moon-ish. OK, Maybe I can buy Ferral. I can't get from "Ferral" back to "Devil".
I am back at stuck.

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My impression is that you have an understanding of what the meaning of this fifteenth card in the majors is to you, and it creates a conflict with the imagery provided in pagan decks. Specifically you shared that the horned (antler/fur) man does not correlate to the meanings for you. I think the issue is that it does for me, I completely see the correlation, and am not sure another person can do that for you. Many others are giving you further explanation on the interpretations of the Devil card, in hopes that something will make it click for you in these pagan decks. It might be better to share what you think the horned man means...

What does that pagan-deck imagery say to you?
(ignoring any concept of the fifteenth card in tarot)

This could seriously expand your understanding and use of this card when casting!

hippiewitchie said:

I understand some of the concepts of the Devil in traditional tarots: Bondage to materialism/ greed/ addictions/ excess...

I cannot wrap my head around those same concepts when confronted with Pagan decks where the "Devil" is the "Horned One", "Pan", "the Guardian" or some other Horned God or a Shamanistic type image (Merlin Tarot and LLewelyn come to mind)

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As a Pagan of about thirty years (maybe slightly less), I can tell you that no Pagan God, the Horned One, the Triple Goddess, or any of Themselves, are "sweetness and light". They are about power, and all forms of power. Pagans honour their own shadow, and that of their Gods. They don't pretend darkness doesn't exist. The Lord of the Hunt is exactly that - a hunter, a killer. He has warm blood dripping off his sword.

Pagans are exactly the people who can see past a need to pretty everything up by running away and hiding from so-called evil, and confront and deal with what's real (which isn't always pretty).

hippiewitchie said:

I hope this is in the right place.

I understand some of the concepts of the Devil in traditional tarots: Bondage to materialism/ greed/ addictions/ excess...

I cannot wrap my head around those same concepts when confronted with Pagan decks where the "Devil" is the "Horned One", "Pan", "the Guardian" or some other Horned God or a Shamanistic type image (Merlin Tarot and LLewelyn come to mind)

Can somebody please explain this to me? Am I the only one?

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Primal urges - when in excess=negative, when balanced=positive.

The trouble I have, is why is the devil always represented by the male gender in tarot. There are plenty of females who can be devils and very primal

~ C

Caedryn said:

Primal urges - when in excess=negative, when balanced=positive.

The trouble I have, is why is the devil always represented by the male gender in tarot. There are plenty of females who can be devils and very primal

~ C

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The Victorian Romantic has a female Devil. I think their gothic tarot features one, as well. (The Bohemian Gothic's Devil)

Caedryn said:

The trouble I have, is why is the devil always represented by the male gender in tarot. There are plenty of females who can be devils and very primal

~ C

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True, yet I think it is a reflection of the yang energy, which is male, in the esoteric sense, which is not dependent upon what may or may not hang between your legs.