The guy in the 6 of cups

bogiesan said:

Lr, you could save me hours of research (that I shoudl find interesting but needlessly tedious) by pointing me toward a resource for your Book T assertion. It is a topic I'd like to add to my Waite-Smith arcana.

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It has been established in other threads that the Waite Minors are based on the Golden Dawn titles, but you can see for yourself if you compare the illustrations of Minors 2 through 10 with the titles given on page 2 of Book T. For example, 8 of Cups = Lord of Abandoned Success, 10 of Swords = Lord of Ruin, 4 of Swords = Lord of Rest from Strife. With very few changes, the same titles were also used by Crowley for the Thoth. Waite's oaths of secrecy prevented him from divulging this source.

summerbutterfly said:

[...] But to me, the six is what the main characters are all about, innocent love, may be a past life connection, but not walking away from it all.....

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Definitely yes on the past life, soul in the background, interpretation. The man could be this life's distant memories waking away from us, or those that we should let go. Remember the best, chuck the rest!

ETA
http://www.tarot.org.il/Library/Mathers/Book-T.html
I keep handy.

The dude in the background is using a staff. Maybe he's emotionally crippled from dwelling too much on the past, or maybe he's a cop walking his beat with an elongated nightstick, or a gardener with some sort of garden tool (also useful for murdering snakes and gophers), or maybe he is just an insignificant background element. Maybe some medium can channel Pixie and ask her why she included that figure.

LRichard said:

It has been established in other threads that the Waite Minors are based on the Golden Dawn titles, but you can see for yourself if you compare the illustrations of Minors 2 through 10 with the titles given on page 2 of Book T. For example, 8 of Cups = Lord of Abandoned Success, 10 of Swords = Lord of Ruin, 4 of Swords = Lord of Rest from Strife. With very few changes, the same titles were also used by Crowley for the Thoth. Waite's oaths of secrecy prevented him from divulging this source.

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Groovy. Thanks.
You'd think after all this time someone would have cracked his secret codes and made meat of his oaths.

bogiesan said:

Groovy. Thanks.
You'd think after all this time someone would have cracked his secret codes and made meat of his oaths.

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Don't give up hope.

lrichard, i believe there's no such thing as an insignificant background element in these cards. especially when it comes to people. and my gut says he's not shopping, he's a guard on patrol. the "staff" looks more like a spear to me, and the outfit says guard. nothing to base that on, just a hunch. doesn't feel like a busy marketplace. i get a run-down, abandoned feel, but the "original" RWS has the buildings looking a little well worn. as to the "what" of guarding, i know not. this card is one that i just don't get...

as for "what cards mean," what it meant esoterically in the conveyance of the mysteries according to one man, waite), and what it "means" in a reading can be to verrry different things. one is no more "right" than the other.

i view the "tarot establishment" the same as i do "the church." there is knowledge, and there is wisdom, but i'm not down with hardline "this is how it is." i call it putting god in a box. i don't like to put tarot in a box. well, actually, physically i do, just not metaphorically... metaphysically?

arya ishtar said:

......as for "what cards mean," what it meant esoterically in the conveyance of the mysteries according to one man, waite), and what it "means" in a reading can be to verrry different things. one is no more "right" than the other.

i view the "tarot establishment" the same as i do "the church." there is knowledge, and there is wisdom, but i'm not down with hardline "this is how it is." i call it putting god in a box. i don't like to put tarot in a box. well, actually, physically i do, just not metaphorically... metaphysically?

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What was intended by the author is a historical matter, certainly not out of bounds for a Tarot History & Iconography forum, is it? What a card means in a reading is an intuitive impression that depends on many more variables than merely the specific deck being used. As a matter of fact, in a divination scenario, many readers could do just as well using something like the Hanson-Roberts or Magical Forest in place of the Rider-Waite. There's nothing wrong with that, but they possibly could reach a wider audience in one of the divination forums. For example, a suggestion that the Ten of Swords may indicate accupuncture could be a very creative divinatory observation, but it adds nothing to anyone's basic knowledge of the Rider-Waite Tarot. I really hope that I have expressed myself clearly. People's feelings can get hurt very easily when they encounter an opinion or an approach which is different from theirs. It is certain that some people (and they know who they are) think my style of writing is abrasive, but although my Sun sign is Aries, I am very far from the Emperor type, no matter how I come across. Blame it on years and years of technical writing.

In Waite's companion book he says, "A card of the past and of memories, looking back, as--for example--on childhood; happiness, enjoyment, but coming rather from the past; things that have vanished." The children could be meant to illustrate the man's inner thoughts. From the look of it, it's a fond memory. But if the card was determined to be negative in a reading, it might represent regrets or mental turmoil.

Mary Greer used this card to illustrate how to translate images in a tarot reading. This is her take which I like very much:

EXCERPT:

• Courtyard – a private space surrounded by walls or buildings. It functions as a place of air, light, privacy, security and tranquility.
• Guard – a person who keeps watch. He functions in a defensive manner to watch or protect what is vulnerable or to control access.

A very literal description might be: “In a private, guarded space, a child offers a gift of flowers to a another child.”

The next level of abstraction looks something like this:
“In a private, secure and guarded place, but with inattentive watchfulness, youthful innocence and vulnerability handle, with some safeguards, a gift of beauty and reproductive vigor.”

.......(redacted)........

Let’s add a keyword from the basic card meaning so that we have the following translation:

“A memory in which youthful innocence and vulnerability, in a private, secure and guarded place, but with inattentive protection, handle, with some safeguards, a gift of beauty and reproductive vigor.”

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For the fuller analysis, read the rest of the post here (scroll down for 6 of cups): http://marygreer.wordpress.com/category/story-in-a-picture/

LRichard said:

What was intended by the author is a historical matter, certainly not out of bounds for a Tarot History & Iconography forum, is it?

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whoops, my bad, forgot i was on the history channel. so what does history/iconography say about our mystery man? is he on the 6 of cups on other decks, or was this a purely waite take?