Lenormand; when did it become 36 cards?

cardlady22 said:

Well, the range of possible Sabian Symbols for that date are very interesting.
Gemini 5 ~ A radical magazine or publication, asking for action, displays a sensational front page.
to reach beyond established forms
Gemini 6 ~ Workmen drilling for oil.
ambition; delving in
Gemini 7 ~ An old-fashioned well with the purest and coolest of waters.
fundamental trust in life; cooperation with environment

In the playing card calendar, May 27 is the 5 Express communication
Saturn energy in; Mercury energy out
*ruled by the K Serve emotion or the 3 Group construction

Christopher Lee, Vincent Price
Paul Bettany, Louis Gossett Jr
Peri Gilpin, Julia Ward Howe
Wild Bill Hickok, Derek Parker
Henry Kissinger, Christopher Dodd

Click to expand...

Very interesting cardlady

lord_ewin said:

She was arrested during la terreur for predicting death to people... which started an investigation and then Saint-Just, Marat, et Robespierre came to see her about it. She predicted deaths to all of them, which is what got her jailed in the first place. Which is how she actually met Josephine, btw.

Click to expand...

Yes, she was a great lady but there is no evidence of her predicting these deaths to these people during the Terror. Heck, my heart leapt when I read she had read for Marie Antoinette, who had a pack of cards for fortune telling. Sadly not true. I also take her intimate chumminess with Josephine with a pinch of salt. I think cosy girly friendship was wishful thinking on her part (apparently, letters were forged, intimacy overblown). They knew each other and Mme Lenormand used the acquaintance, and Josephine's interest in the occult, to create another one of her stories, a kind of stamp of authority on her readings.

But we still love her with all her krazy stories!

Please, someone start another thread!

I personally hold Mlle. Lenormand in high esteem, I hope it didn’t some otherwise. I do believe she deserves more respect than Waite etc. because she was a real card reader. I don’t believe designing a deck is that important.

As I said to Lord Elwin I found it sad there was some evidence, in her own writings, of someone over compensating. There could have been quite a few reasons for this, but I don’t get the impression of someone who was actually that confident. Understanding the need for propaganda doesn’t equate for confidence. It just means she had a strong understanding of the volatile time she lived in. in addition, as I said before, she was famous but also practising something illegal so had to be careful.

With information concerning her life, I don’t think the Internet is a great source. Most of what I know comes from books, and a Lenormand friend who had been fascinated with her for 40 years. Also in trips to France I’ve been fortunate to find stuff out. Her grave is regularly tended by admirers - she is respected.

Regarding Marie Antoinette there is little evidence she read for her or Napoleon either. Sylvie Steinbach mentions she might have read once, I think she researched it some time ago.

However I think it’s safe to say she did read for Josephine. Josephine already knew some cartomancy when she arrived in France (it’s mentioned in many of her biographies from her correspondence - she had her own cards). Lenormand also read for Tsar Alexander I (a friend of Josephine, and a man fascinated with the occult). Her clientele was quite established and high.

I think it's safe to say she was born on 27th May 1772. The earlier birthdate wasn’t levied until she died, and has been proved by her recent biographers to be false. They found her entry into parish records at Alencon.

Thanks Andybc! It's good to know that the date has been confirmed... do we know the hour? That would be very very interesting indeed...!

Jass

My research into the 36 card set led me to the German system via Switzerland.

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Jass
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Switzerland

In Switzerland, the national game is Jass. It is played with decks of 36 cards. West of the Brünig-Napf-Reuss line, a French-style 36-card deck is used, with numbers from 6 to 10, Jacks, Queens, Kings and Aces. The same kind of deck is used in Graubünden and in parts of Thurgau.

In Central Switzerland, Zurich, Schaffhausen and Eastern Switzerland, the prevalent deck consists of 36 playing cards with the following suits: Roses, Bells, Acorns and Shields (in German: Rosen, Schellen, Eichel und Schilten). The ranks of the alternate deck, from low to high, are: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ("Banner"), Unter (lower jack), Ober (higher jack), King and Ace.Switzerland

In Switzerland, the national game is Jass. It is played with decks of 36 cards. West of the Brünig-Napf-Reuss line, a French-style 36-card deck is used, with numbers from 6 to 10, Jacks, Queens, Kings and Aces. The same kind of deck is used in Graubünden and in parts of Thurgau.

In Central Switzerland, Zurich, Schaffhausen and Eastern Switzerland, the prevalent deck consists of 36 playing cards with the following suits: Roses, Bells, Acorns and Shields (in German: Rosen, Schellen, Eichel und Schilten). The ranks of the alternate deck, from low to high, are: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ("Banner"), Unter (lower jack), Ober (higher jack), King and Ace.

Jass Type Trick-taking
Players 4 (variants: 3-6)
Skill(s) required Tactics & Strategy
Cards 36
Play Counter-clockwise
Card rank (highest to lowest) A K Q J 10 9 8 7 6
Playing time 1 hour
Random chance Medium

Jass (pronounced /jas/[1]) is a trick taking card game and a distinctive branch of the Marriage family, popularly supposed to be the progenitor of the American game of Pinochle.[2] It is popular throughout the Alemannic German speaking area of Europe (German-speaking Switzerland, Alsace, Liechtenstein, Vorarlberg, Southern Germany) and beyond in Romansh-speaking Graubünden of Switzerland and German-speaking South Tyrol in Italy.

The most common variant of Jass is the Schieber (in Vorarlberg also known as Krüzjass), played by two teams of two players each. It is often considered Switzerland's national card game, and is so much popular there that Swiss have come to apply the name Jass to trick-taking card games in general.

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MW