Thoth Tarot and Projective Geometry

seedcake

There is also some inaccuracies in Crowley's ideas of what is fact - things that were believed to be true at the time, but time has disproven. The greatest reason to believe she and crowley were not closer was that she met him in the latter parts of his life. I firmly beleive there is enough evidence had she met him in his prime, and hers, she would have been far more involved with him. Her stern words do not match her actions, which are devout. I think it is clear she is provoking or playing hard to get; some shadow of what could have been. The time had already passed for a more passionate coupling, and frankly, with Crowley's flaws - that would have been a sure-fire way to have the whole project messed up as a good number of his previous efforts.

Lon Milo DuQuette wrote about it in his "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot". It's not a secret that they met later in their lives. I don't know why people still imagine it as something what started when they were younger. It was amazing collaboration, easily seen in the cards. Age had nothing to do with it ;)

And thank you for the article, some food for thought :heart:
 

ravenest

It's been quite some time since I approached the O.T.O about joining. Reading the Manifesto now, I think I'll just remain a "solitary" for the rest of my days. This sort of thing brings out the curmudgeonly Mister Rogers in me: "Can you say grandiloquent? I can." I used to think the BOTA skirted the borders of pretention, but they were pikers in comparison. I don't doubt that some gratifying work goes on in the Order, but I'd probably hyperventilate were I to attempt reading the Manifesto aloud. It reminds me of my impression of Dickens: he would never use ten words when 100 words would do. I'll just file it in the "gimme a break" folder and go on my way.

:D

Such were the claims of occult post Victorian gentlemen ..... bidding on charters like stock shares :)

Theodore Reuss used to buy them by the bundle ;) . The dynamic of the 'Secret Conference' and the defunct rites incorporated by title into the amorphous phoenix that arose from that is represented by those titles above ...... errrrmmmm ... plus some Crowley some added for fun.

How serious is one to take it ? I suppose that depends on how serious one is able to detect real gold from fool's gold ( or a leg pull ) .... remember the thing about 'spiritual pride' being a deadly obstacle , and the best defence against that is a good sense of humour ... especially against your own scared cows. That seems hypocritical to some.


Maybe best summed up by a story. Crowley wrote once that he had acquired so many charters and been appointed head of near defunct occult obscure fraternities that he had a bunch of , not only long winded titles, but regalia, medals chains, rings , crowns .... :D one day he tried them all on and couldnt walk :D .

This seems reflected in one of his rites . The candidate is awarded the degree for the ceremony he just did ( heck, we all like a medal or a twinkly acknowledgment ;) ), but with this degree goes this title ... and this one... and this one .... and they go on and one might be impressed ... but they go on and on until one must think "This is getting kinda ridiculous " and more and more till one is nearly collapsing just under the words and the titles get longer and longer and more ridiculous and in foreign languages (some are actually insults when translated into English :D ) .

Eventually some 'get it ' .... okay okay .... I got it. Some dont and afterwards ask "What the hell ? ! Were they serious ! ? "

One guy even went out and hunted out as many of those medals as he could from old masonic stores, 2nd hand shops or other equivalent degrees and pinned them all over his robe. It was hilarious ... he was so proud of it, he didnt seem to notice no one else had done that !

I wont spoil the 'fun ' more as to what comes after that 'lesson' (and that is what it is about; learning a lesson ), but just indicate the title of the next ceremony is 'Annihilation' )

.... big lessons about ego there !

They guy covered in medals and rewards, however , never went on to that stage . "You should really press on .... at least for clarity and continuity of the series ."

"Oh no .... I am just where I want to be. " :)

In any case , it dont matter a crack of **** whether the OTO holds the defunct charter for the Ancient Indian (English Empire) of the Sat Bai IMO ... it has no effect on the ceremonies that eveentually got sereverly pared back to then reform as mere handful of OTO degrees

The Rites of Memphis and Mizriam used to have 97 degrees - Holy Toledo !

(Or if we add the Rite of Holy Toledo that's 98 degrees ;) )

Its a maze, there are dead ends .... but really, if one pays attention, one can navigate through. Why the dead ends ?

Because life is like that. A series of 'emulated life stages' enacted in dramatic ritual as initiation ceremonies, should have the similar dynamics. ..... IMO .
 

Barleywine

I can't see what possible value such "revisionist thinking" about their relationship could have at this late date (beyond the usual human compulsion to pick at a scab). The correspondence I've read to date (probably not all of it) seemed quite orderly and for the most part business-like. Also, the Bibliographic Note to the Book of Thoth (which fairly drips with Crowley's singular style and sly wit, never mind the byline) shows a commendable respect for Harris, as both a taskmaster and a creative genius. I just don't see anything even slightly prurient in any of it.

@ravenest - And the Rite of Holy Moly would make 99. Can we get an even 100?
 

ravenest

Ancient and Justified Grand Barleywine Keeper.

There 100 !
 

Orione

Tee hee!!! :-D

(Oops..Does that make 101?)

Interestingly, already The Book of the Law contains ideas connected to projective geometry, however

True, as does book 777.
But the Book of Thoth doesn't seem to have specific references to it, which strikes me as odd. Am I correct in thinking that, or have I missed some lines?

It seems then, that Crowley instinctively understood the core concepts of projective geometry, but perhaps not the specific expression of it in line drawings?
Or perhaps those of us with some background in projective geometry, read his purely qabalistic writings as expressions of an understanding of projective geometry? (Which might well be one and the same thing, anyway.)

I guess we'll never know what inspired Lady Harris to take the courses and incorporate it into the cards. It may have been Crowley, it may have been an artistic interest in the beautiful line patterns, it may have been curiosity about anthroposophy (she was a free mason as well, so she may have just been incredibly curious about all kinds of spiritual groups), it may have been that she was a great thinker in her own right and connected some dots that Crowley had not been able to (consciously) connect. I like to think it's the latter, because of the many interesting, inspiring and beautiful choices she seems to have made independently when designing the artwork for the Thoth tarot.

Whatever it may have been: she added the projective geometry and now at least this link exists between rich bodies of thought and symbolism of thelema and anthroposophy.
And it's endlessly fascinating to me that Olive Whicher seems to have been very disappointed that Lady Harris understood the core concepts of anthroposophy, but didn't join the movement. Instead she remained a thelema adept.
For me, it's the other way around. I (think I) have an understanding of thelema, but Steiner's idea of free will is in line with my experience of the universe. And yet, due to my deep admiration for Lady Harris, I keep thinking: am I missing something that she understood?

Hmm... evidently and thankfully I have a long way to go before I'm an Ancient and Justified Grand Barleywine Keeper!!! :-D