Newbie to Thoth needs advice

Michael Sternbach

When I read a deck intuitively, I go by the ideas suggested by the images on the cards. For me it would be very difficult to read images full of strange symbols which I do not understand. I am not saying that it is impossible, only that I would be more comfortable with a deck having more familiar imagery.

Does it not bother you to read images which you do not understand, or am I missing something?

I do believe in studying the symbols on the cards by referring to Crowley's numerous books and all that, yet I feel that the symbols also speak all for themselves. Otherwise, they would cease being symbols and become mere signs - little more than a shorthand for AC's written material really.

It might be an interesting exercise to turn this around and, for the time being, assume that for understanding the BoT, Book of the Law, Book of Lies, etc, we need to look at the Thoth cards. ;)
 

Michael Sternbach

I know, I know... but it doesn't help. Imagine you use a deck where the number 2 is counted as 3. It would confuse you, too. I use Hebrew letters as numbers every day (today is yom alef, the first day of the week), and I CAN'T get used to it. Zephyros manages it, I have to disregard it, it's too confusing.

I think that if you use a system (in this case, the use of Hebrew letters as numbers), then do it right. They might have put the Fool at the end or not counted him at all, and it would all have worked out beautifully, like in the French system. And then I also feel comfortable with gematria, because the system is stringent in itself.

In the case of the GD, I simply notice that they didn't have a "feel" for the Hebrew letters and bent them to their uses. In a way, like Christian cabalists did with Jewish kabbalah. Cultural appropriation you call it? Reminds me a bit of it.

I honestly also don't see how the literal meaning of the Hebrew letter (gimel is camel, dalet is door) helps in understanding the cards. I'm sorry if I sound like a total ignoramus but I think that you can apply them to ANY card. Every card carries unexpected reserves like the camel, and every card opens a door. These "meanings" are so general that they turn into phrases like newspaper horoscopes which suit everyone. I never read an explanation that convinced me or gave me this spark of: AAAH, that's how they're connected. And knowing Hebrew, I SEE these meanings when I see the letter.

I studied it all and came to the conclusion that these parts go against my grain. If you don't speak Hebrew in every day life, you probably don't care whether gimel is read as three or four. For me, gimel is and will always be 3. Yom gimel is the third day, kita gimel is 3rd grade. I can't fight my poor old brain. But I don't tell anybody else what to think.

I was relieved, though, to read in Yoav Ben Dov's book that he also thinks the GD association is strange.

The English school of Tarot adopted a different system. As The Fool card was moved to the top of the suit, it was matched to the first letter Aleph. The rest of the cards were matched according to the sequence order, which made Beth correspond to The Magician, Gimel (the third letter) to The Popess and so on. This correspondence may seem strange to those who know Gimatria, the traditional notation of numbers by Hebrew letters which is very important in the Cabbala.
Ben-Dov, Yoav (2014-01-25). Tarot - The Open Reading (p. 89). . Kindle Edition.

Maybe you could try to think of the cards as carrying two consecutive numberings? Paul Hughes-Barlow does that, it seems to me.
 

Richard

I do believe in studying the symbols on the cards by referring to Crowley's numerous books and all that, yet I feel that the symbols also speak all for themselves. Otherwise, they would cease being symbols and become mere signs - little more than a shorthand for AC's written material really.

It might be an interesting exercise to turn this around and, for the time being, assume that for understanding the BoT, Book of the Law, Book of Lies, etc, we need to look at the Thoth cards. ;)

At least it would be convenient to know the usual glyphs for the classical planets, the zodiac signs, and the four elements.
 

Michael Sternbach

At least it would be convenient to know the usual glyphs for the classical planets, the zodiac signs, and the four elements.

Yes, that shouldn't be too difficult to learn for any newbie.
 

Nemia

Michael, I'll try...
 

foolMoon

I think it is perfectly possible to read Thoth deck by intuition only. That's how I started, and even borrowed the RWS meanings for the readings with Thoth deck.

But I also think the Astrological, Cabalistic, Alchemical and Magickal association to the deck definitely enrich and widen the scope of Tarot readings. This requires discussing, reading and studying the subject with time and patience.
 

Michael Sternbach

I think it is perfectly possible to read Thoth deck by intuition only. That's how I started, and even borrowed the RWS meanings for the readings with Thoth deck.

But I also think the Astrological, Cabalistic, Alchemical and Magickal association to the deck definitely enrich and widen the scope of Tarot readings. This requires discussing, reading and studying the subject with time and patience.

That's what I did, essentially. I started reading with the Thoth, while exploring its different strands gradually over time (I talked about this on my blog, accessible via my profile, see "Contact Info").
 

Oink

At least it would be convenient to know the usual glyphs for the classical planets, the zodiac signs, and the four elements.
If anyone else is into digital flashcards, I uploaded an Anki deck to help study this information.

It is called "Glyphs for Tarot - Elements, Planets, Zodiac" and is shared here (SVG image previews may not display in browser, but should work fine when loaded into Anki):
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2144904925

If you are unfamiliar with Anki, it is "spaced repetition software", or more colloquially, digital flashcards that try to help you learn by timing and spacing the flashcards appropriately for your pace. There are free clients available for just about everything except iOS (iPad/iPhone), where you will have to pay $24.99 for the privilege (developer's choice). The mobile apps do not fully implement the functionality of the desktop client, so if you have a computer I recommend installing the full version there even if you primarily use the mobile version.

Client download links here:
http://ankisrs.net/#download

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. I've been using Anki for a few years now, and though it's not exactly the easiest thing to understand, it's very powerful.

Also, if people like this deck and want me to make more with other Thoth correspondences or whatever, I should be able to do that pretty easily since they probably already exist in my database.

PS: if anything is wrong or misspelled, I am truly embarrassed and definitely want to correct it, so please do not hesitate to let me know!
 

Thoughtful

At least it would be convenient to know the usual glyphs for the classical planets, the zodiac signs, and the four elements.

Richard
As mentioned in an earlier post l started using the Thoth intuitively, going by the images and the feel of the deck. l felt ready to explore some more so spent the weekend doing just what you have mentioned above. Its finally becoming more accessible to me and piece by slow piece l am building up to the Thoth. l am finding it very absorbing and now instead of being overwhelmed by the Thoth l find it taking me step by step. Its also made me inclined to keep a written record of my readings and thoughts on each card, something l never felt doing with other decks.

l am now re-reading Duquette which is making much more sense thank goodness, so won't be hanging up the towel again in frustration.

My Thoth was bought some time ago and largely just sat on a shelf (1) because l was a little afraid of it (2) it seemed way out of my intellectual sphere, (though l am not stupid you understand!) l did now and again look at it as it kept drawing me, l guess its all about timing and being ready.

Not sure about learning the tree of life with its Hebrew but at least l am now able to enjoy the beauty of the Thoth in a more fulsome way than before.

Talking of which does anyone here see the tree of life in the Universe card, l have tried but l cannot be as pure as l think l am lol!
 

Michellehihi

If anyone else is into digital flashcards, I uploaded an Anki deck to help study this information.

It is called "Glyphs for Tarot - Elements, Planets, Zodiac" and is shared here (SVG image previews may not display in browser, but should work fine when loaded into Anki):
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2144904925

If you are unfamiliar with Anki, it is "spaced repetition software", or more colloquially, digital flashcards that try to help you learn by timing and spacing the flashcards appropriately for your pace. There are free clients available for just about everything except iOS (iPad/iPhone), where you will have to pay $24.99 for the privilege (developer's choice). The mobile apps do not fully implement the functionality of the desktop client, so if you have a computer I recommend installing the full version there even if you primarily use the mobile version.

Client download links here:
http://ankisrs.net/#download

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. I've been using Anki for a few years now, and though it's not exactly the easiest thing to understand, it's very powerful.

Also, if people like this deck and want me to make more with other Thoth correspondences or whatever, I should be able to do that pretty easily since they probably already exist in my database.

PS: if anything is wrong or misspelled, I am truly embarrassed and definitely want to correct it, so please do not hesitate to let me know!
I went to the links you proposed, and I cannot open it on my ipad, let me see if the desktop computer will work.