Reversals with Thoth deck

TyroneLove

In the conclusion of one of the early chapters of her book Complete Book of Tarot Reversals, Mary Greer writes that she always use reversals in her readings except when using the Thoth deck and another one which I can't remember right now. Problem is she doesn't say why.

As it is the deck I'm studying the tarot with, this confused me a bit. I've done a quick search on the web and read somewhere that you traditionnaly don't use reversals with the Thoth deck.

I know Golden Dawn members use elemental dignities so they don't need to interpret reversed cards but it shouldn't be set in stone that said deck can't be used with them, right ? I mean it seems a bit stupid to me. Unless of course I'm not seeing the whole picture.
Anybody can help me with that ?
 

Barleywine

I've never seen any reason not to use them, but then I've also never run across any published mention of the Thoth's inherent unsuitablity for it. I've been using the Thoth deck for a very long time and have had no issues with reversals, although I tend to give them less weight across the board these days regardless of the deck I'm using. It's not about the deck itself but about the often subtle redirection of the energy imparted by a card's reversed orientation. I believe the visual image is secondary to one's grasp of the concepts involved (except perhaps where the "facing" of the image is relevant to the reading).
 

TyroneLove

Thanks for the insight Barleywine.
 

Barleywine

Perhaps Teheuti (MKG) can offer some clarification if she happens to see this thread.
 

BrightEye

In the conclusion of one of the early chapters of her book Complete Book of Tarot Reversals, Mary Greer writes that she always use reversals in her readings except when using the Thoth deck and another one which I can't remember right now. Problem is she doesn't say why.

As it is the deck I'm studying the tarot with, this confused me a bit. I've done a quick search on the web and read somewhere that you traditionnaly don't use reversals with the Thoth deck.

I know Golden Dawn members use elemental dignities so they don't need to interpret reversed cards but it shouldn't be set in stone that said deck can't be used with them, right ? I mean it seems a bit stupid to me. Unless of course I'm not seeing the whole picture.
Anybody can help me with that ?
Elemental dignities are similar to reversals. The Thoth comes from the Golden Dawn tradition, which, as you say, uses elemental dignities instead of reversals but the principle is the same. I personally think you can use any deck any which way you like. The EDs instead of reversals is just a tradition and the way the deck was first conceived by its creators.
 

Barleywine

Personally, I don't see elemental dignities and reversals as mutually exclusive. EDs are about strenghthening and weakening according to elemental compatibility, while reversals are more about redirection of energy. As an astrologer, EDs are like "meat-and-potatoes" to me since they are basic building-blocks, but reversals are where I find great subtlety. I like them both in their own way and for their own purposes.
 

Babalon Jones

The Thoth backs are not reversable, so there is that.

But also, the Thoth system has more than enough meaning to work with that you get the whole range to choose from upright or reversed. No need to go there with reversals unless you just roll that way. Some decks with more specific scenes I see how it could be useful to open up the range. Personally I don't use reversals I prefer to use the range regardless.
 

Barleywine

I've always been puzzled about the apparent angst over non-reversible backs. Even if I start with all of the cards in a spread turned face down and reveal them one-by-one, I never pay the least bit of attention to the backs, although I am careful to flip them over side-to-side to maintain the as-dealt orientation. Mostly I leave just the outcome card concealed until the end to avoid jumping ahead to the conclusion before I've analyzed all the components (and also to savor that little bit of mystery). But that's really all "process," not "substance." I tend to be a pragmatist about these things, and don't get too hung up on the ritual.
 

foolMoon

The Thoth Companion by Snuffn seems only book which deals with reversal meanings. Because I refer to this book sometimes, I do use Thoth reversal meanings. When spreading / choosing cards, I close my eyes not to see the backs.
 

Barleywine

Another reason I need to get Snuffin's book, in addition to the other endorsements for it I've seen here. As far as the mechanics go, a deck is a deck is a deck. I see nothing mystical about reversals in and of themselves; they're just a structural reality arising from the handling of the deck (unless you're fastidious and always put the cards upright before each reading). They're simply additional information that MAY (stressing the "may") provide a useful perspective (call it an "oblique viewpoint") on the subject of the reading. Anything that helps me get "under the skin" of the matter I will use without hesitation.

There is an interesting example in the Thoth deck (note that it's not my original notion, I saw it somewhere long ago; probably Wang): when upright, the legs of the Hanged Man (usually described as a "cross") make a reasonable approximation of the astrological glyph of Saturn, a symbol of suffering. When reversed, this transforms into a passable Jupiter glyph, a symbol of hope. The arms, which were embracing his descent into the redeeming darkness of the Unconscious are now raised in a sign of victory. This subtlety transforms the card from a traditionally "difficult" one into something softer; the idea of "emerging" from perceived adversity as opposed to descending into it. By the way, I do agree with Crowley that, in the upright condition, "This idea of sacrifice is, in the final analysis, a wrong idea." It's probably why the Hanged Man is pictured in other decks as smiling benignly.