Seven of Disks

foolMoon

I always equated this card with the figure of Adam, and the card in the RWS seems to support this. While Adam was in the Garden of Eden at Tiphareth, everything was balanced and in line with the Will of God. However, once he ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge he gained the creative powers of gods (creating new life) but lacked the godly "engine." As a direct result of this the carefree abundance of the Garden was denied to him and so he had to work for his subsistence from the very earth that spawned his own life.

Seen in this light, the title of failure may be fitting, as not only does Adam toil but the (literal) fruits of his efforts are poor and meagre. All of the four Sevens taken together show different aspects of the "hard work" of being alive. Force becomes aggression, thought becomes obsession, emotion becomes masturbatory self-indulgence and abundance becomes hard and cold.

I sense strong whiff of Chritianity :)
 

Zephyros

I sense strong whiff of Chritianity :)

Not really. The Thoth is not a Christian, or even Abrahamic, deck. However, the Tree of Life which serves as its structure is highly influenced by that type of thinking. In fact, the deck uses many old Aeon symbols and ideas but in such a way so as to say new things. The same mythology can be used to tell many different stories.

Not to mention, of course, that Genesis is part of the Old Testament, which means Judaism. Except that as I explained above, the ideas expressed aren't even that.
 

foolMoon

Not really. The Thoth is not a Christian, or even Abrahamic, deck. However, the Tree of Life which serves as its structure is highly influenced by that type of thinking. In fact, the deck uses many old Aeon symbols and ideas but in such a way so as to say new things. The same mythology can be used to tell many different stories.

Not to mention, of course, that Genesis is part of the Old Testament, which means Judaism. Except that as I explained above, the ideas expressed aren't even that.

I confess that I don't know much about Judaism or any other religions, but when I was in my teens, and forced by my parents to go to Protestant churches, these mythologies were taught by the elders in the liturgy.

Indeed their bible had The Old and New Testament in one book.

Not sure what would be the significance and interpretation of TOL by the Christianity.
 

Nosgo

I always equated this card with the figure of Adam, and the card in the RWS seems to support this. While Adam was in the Garden of Eden at Tiphareth, everything was balanced and in line with the Will of God. However, once he ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge he gained the creative powers of gods (creating new life) but lacked the godly "engine." As a direct result of this the carefree abundance of the Garden was denied to him and so he had to work for his subsistence from the very earth that spawned his own life.

Seen in this light, the title of failure may be fitting, as not only does Adam toil but the (literal) fruits of his efforts are poor and meagre. All of the four Sevens taken together show different aspects of the "hard work" of being alive. Force becomes aggression, thought becomes obsession, emotion becomes masturbatory self-indulgence and abundance becomes hard and cold.

Wow, really interesting point of view. I've never made the parralel with Adam and his story but you made it so easy to understand this way! Thank you :)
 

Lidian

So different traditions adopt entirely opposite concepts for this specific card. Those following a tradition will interpret it as failure and loss work while others will interpret it as reaping rewards, harvest and patience. That's really kind of troublesome that two different views would interpret the same reading exactly opposite as one is inevitably bound to being wrong...
 

ravenest

Not necessarily. its fairly exoteric to insist on either black OR white.

One can learn and gain a lot from failures. I see the card like a maze.

One can come energy and work in finding one's way through and then come to a dead end. If one sits there feeling trapped, its total failure. Or one could use what they have learned from a failed attempt and add it to the maze map.

Or then again, going with old style astrology ..... it could mean , basically, you are *****

(see my earlier post on p1. )
 

Zephyros

So different traditions adopt entirely opposite concepts for this specific card. Those following a tradition will interpret it as failure and loss work while others will interpret it as reaping rewards, harvest and patience. That's really kind of troublesome that two different views would interpret the same reading exactly opposite as one is inevitably bound to being wrong...

I think that the reader is ultimately the one who makes the call, depending on their own sensibilities. It should be noted, however, that even within a system different conclusions can be arrived at. While the essence would remain similar the way in which the influence of the card is brought forth is quite open to interpretation. For example, while reading Waite's Pictorial Key to the Tarot it is possible, if you know what to look for, to see echoes of the greater Golden Dawn system but interpreted through the author's unique perspective. Many of these echoes can also be perceived in Crowley's Book of Thoth, albeit from yet another perspective. So basically, even the "traditional" approach can vary wildly depending on who's wielding it.

The tools with which to interpret a card are there and are easy to learn and use but the results aren't usually uniform.
 

Barleywine

I've always been curious where this idea of a "bountiful harvest" came from. Waite never said it; he considered the divinatory meanings to be "exceedingly contradictory," denoting on one hand "money" (but not "money due and payable" as far as I can tell) and the processes of business and barter (but not necessarily their "fruits" in hand), and altercation and quarreling on the other hand (oh, and just for good measure, innocence and ingenuity on the third hand). It strikes me that even Waite was flummoxed by this card, suggesting that the abundant pentacles are treasures of the heart's desire, but then being decidedly less sanguine about their interpretation in a reading.

The "traditional" commentators apparently didn't pay attention to tthe fact that only one of the seven pentacles has actually been "harvested; the rest are still "on the vine," and the man looks a bit daunted that he still has so much work left to do. Even in the RWS version there is an aura of stymied or suspended labor. If this were truly a card of great success, he would have all of the pentacles in a wheelbarrow and be merrily on his way to market with them.
 

Zephyros

This deck is more abstract. There is always the option that Smith made a mistake since the image is an interpretation of an abstraction. Oh it may be that she drew the correct image but it is obvious only to people who know the "keys," which she herself did not.

But in any case, what you said is why I equate this card with Adam, whatever the image.
 

Lidian

I think that the reader is ultimately the one who makes the call, depending on their own sensibilities. It should be noted, however, that even within a system different conclusions can be arrived at. While the essence would remain similar the way in which the influence of the card is brought forth is quite open to interpretation.



I think I understand your point although what bothers me in this case is that the different traditions propose such different essences/energies and paradigms for interpretation. That doesn't happen with the other cards, that although vary from system to system they often cary similar essences.