The Hanged Man--Visionary or Deluded?

Tabitha

This is my first longish post, so I hope I read the rules correctly, and that this is acceptable for this forum. So, here goes. I have long been fascinated by the Hanged Man card. I have read many interpretations of this card, including the lengthy Kabbalist-influenced one by Rachel Pollack. Numerology isn't my thing, so I will cut through all that in framing my questions about the card. First, the name--"The Hanged Man," grammatically, implies that someone else has "hanged" him. He is not hanging of his own volition. If he were, the title would be "The Hanging Man," at least in English. I am aware that this may be a translation issue vis a vis French, so perhaps it's not that urgent a question. Still, it has always bothered me, since many people see this card as representing a person who is unafraid to see the world upside down--a visionary, of sorts. A person who is creative, brave, and non-conforming. Yet one could also see, I think, a person with "hang-ups," if you will--a person who can't see the world as it is, because s/he is always looking at things upside down. In the Wild Unknown deck, the hanged man is a bat--interesting, because a bat sleeps upside down. It is a natural pose for a bat, and a resting one. The bat is "hanging," however--not "hanged" by someone else, or someone else's ideas, if you want to see it that way. I am curious to hear what you all--many of whom have much more Tarot experience than I--think of my Hanged Man dilemma. (Aside: My 16-year-old son recently got this card in the 10th position of a CC spread. He is a rebel sort--very political--but sometimes I think he is not seeing things as they are, and may make mistakes later in life, as a result). I trust you won't leave me hanging with all this confusion. (Sorry, couldn't resist some punning).
 

Skysteel

First, the name--"The Hanged Man," grammatically, implies that someone else has "hanged" him. He is not hanging of his own volition. If he were, the title would be "The Hanging Man," at least in English.

Merely that hanging is not intrinsic to the man, that he was not always hanging; did the Hanging Gardens hang themselves?
 

spookyboo22

This is my first longish post, so I hope I read the rules correctly, and that this is acceptable for this forum. So, here goes. I have long been fascinated by the Hanged Man card. I have read many interpretations of this card, including the lengthy Kabbalist-influenced one by Rachel Pollack. Numerology isn't my thing, so I will cut through all that in framing my questions about the card. First, the name--"The Hanged Man," grammatically, implies that someone else has "hanged" him. He is not hanging of his own volition. If he were, the title would be "The Hanging Man," at least in English. I am aware that this may be a translation issue vis a vis French, so perhaps it's not that urgent a question. Still, it has always bothered me, since many people see this card as representing a person who is unafraid to see the world upside down--a visionary, of sorts. A person who is creative, brave, and non-conforming. Yet one could also see, I think, a person with "hang-ups," if you will--a person who can't see the world as it is, because s/he is always looking at things upside down. In the Wild Unknown deck, the hanged man is a bat--interesting, because a bat sleeps upside down. It is a natural pose for a bat, and a resting one. The bat is "hanging," however--not "hanged" by someone else, or someone else's ideas, if you want to see it that way. I am curious to hear what you all--many of whom have much more Tarot experience than I--think of my Hanged Man dilemma. (Aside: My 16-year-old son recently got this card in the 10th position of a CC spread. He is a rebel sort--very political--but sometimes I think he is not seeing things as they are, and may make mistakes later in life, as a result). I trust you won't leave me hanging with all this confusion. (Sorry, couldn't resist some punning).

Hi

You're right , he is the hanged man ( the man who has been hanged )
He's not hanged himself.
The more I get into tarot the more I see that each card has loads of different meanings not just one.
I've seen this card as someone who's been hung out to dry
Someone just hanging around but ok with it
Someone who sees things from another angle
Someone who is on there way out of life ... suicide.

Someone who has no input into a scenario etc etc x
 

Tabitha

Merely that hanging is not intrinsic to the man, that he was not always hanging; did the Hanging Gardens hang themselves?

Hmm-I meant that "hanged" is a past participle--cf. "battered by fate," "taken to the hospital." Generally this means that someone or something else was the agent of the action. "Hanging" requires no agent--it's a state of being. The natural state of the Hanging Gardens is to...well, hang.

Sorry, not sure if you were asking for clarification? I guess my main point about the grammar was that this card title (Hanged Man) suggests that someone or something hanged him. So he can't really be active (eg, a visionary or creative person) if someone else put him where he is.
 

Tabitha

Hi

You're right , he is the hanged man ( the man who has been hanged )
He's not hanged himself.
The more I get into tarot the more I see that each card has loads of different meanings not just one.
I've seen this card as someone who's been hung out to dry
Someone just hanging around but ok with it
Someone who sees things from another angle
Someone who is on there way out of life ... suicide.

Someone who has no input into a scenario etc etc x

Yes, that's the more "passive" reading I was wondering about. I have always read that this card is mostly positive in its interpretation...but you see what I mean about the other angle. I guess it would then depend on the cards around it...
 

Skysteel

Hmm-I meant that "hanged" is a past participle--cf. "battered by fate," "taken to the hospital." Generally this means that someone or something else was the agent of the action.

For transitive verbs, perhaps.

Sorry, not sure if you were asking for clarification? I guess my main point about the grammar was that this card title (Hanged Man) suggests that someone or something hanged him. So he can't really be active (eg, a visionary or creative person) if someone else put him where he is.

No; if he hanged himself, that suggests someone else didn't put him where he is.
 

Thirteen

"The world has turned upside down"

(Aside: My 16-year-old son recently got this card in the 10th position of a CC spread. He is a rebel sort--very political--but sometimes I think he is not seeing things as they are, and may make mistakes later in life, as a result). I trust you won't leave me hanging with all this confusion. (Sorry, couldn't resist some punning).
One of the original names of the card was "The Traitor" and his position is how traitors were hung in Italy. Upside down by one foot.

Let's start there. The idea here is that the "Traitor" sees things very differently from the status quo. And the status quo (those in charge at least) hang him up so he won't influence others and change the way things are. Remember that the card indicates "sacrifice" as well as a new perspective. One person's "traitor" is another's "rebel leader" and rebels need to be willing to "sacrifice" themselves in order to turn things upside down. Shake up the status quo.

In fact, during the American Revolution, the British forces sung a song about the "world being turned upside down" meaning that the rebels (as they saw the American colonists) were trying to turn things topsy turvy by putting common folk in charge rather than obeying a king. That, to them, was all horribly wrong. But, obviously, to certain Americans, it was not. And every American leader risked being hung (literally executed) when they signed their named to the Declaration of Indepenence, if they were captured by the British. To the British, they were all traitors to the Crown.

SO. The card may not *literally* have to do with being a traitor or rebel or getting hung up for it. But metaphorically, it's very aptly connected to those old roots of how "traitors" were hung up (willing to be hung up, to sacrifice themselves to get across their opposing views). Note that the Hanged Man is always pictured as "serene" and never in distress. Those in charge are trying to dissuade others from seeing things his way...i.e. "Upside down." But they'd just advertised his position by hanging him up this way. They are making his point.
 

Tabitha

For transitive verbs, perhaps.



No; if he hanged himself, that suggests someone else didn't put him where he is.

Okay, yes, I see--that is exactly what I meant. If he hanged himself, then the meaning of the card isn't the positive one that I have usually read in various books. He is, then, a victim of his own delusions, at least in one sense. Thanks for your suggestion. (On the grammar thing--I am a retired English prof, and probably make more of these sorts of things than one perhaps ought. :))
 

Thirteen

Okay, yes, I see--that is exactly what I meant. If he hanged himself, then the meaning of the card isn't the positive one that I have usually read in various books. He is, then, a victim of his own delusions, at least in one sense.
He could be a victim of his own delusions. But I'd only read it that way if he was ill-dignified. As it is, his very sacrifice, his willingness to speak out on his views and BE hung up for them, indicates that he probably is a visionary who is unsettling those who want to keep people deluded. Who are angry at this man for presenting his visions and interfering with their lies and trickery.
 

Tabitha

One of the original names of the card was "The Traitor" and his position is how traitors were hung in Italy. Upside down by one foot.

Let's start there. The idea here is that the "Traitor" sees things very differently from the status quo. And the status quo (those in charge at least) hang him up so he won't influence others and change the way things are. Remember that the card indicates "sacrifice" as well as a new perspective. One person's "traitor" is another's "rebel leader" and rebels need to be willing to "sacrifice" themselves in order to turn things upside down. Shake up the status quo.

In fact, during the American Revolution, the British forces sung a song about the "world being turned upside down" meaning that the rebels (as they saw the American colonists) were trying to turn things topsy turvy by putting common folk in charge rather than obeying a king. That, to them, was all horribly wrong. But, obviously, to certain Americans, it was not. And every American leader risked being hung (literally executed) when they signed their named to the Declaration of Indepenence, if they were captured by the British. To the British, they were all traitors to the Crown.

SO. The card may not *literally* have to do with being a traitor or rebel or getting hung up for it. But metaphorically, it's very aptly connected to those old roots of how "traitors" were hung up (willing to be hung up, to sacrifice themselves to get across their opposing views). Note that the Hanged Man is always pictured as "serene" and never in distress. Those in charge are trying to dissuade others from seeing things his way...i.e. "Upside down." But they'd just advertised his position by hanging him up this way. They are making his point.

Wow--thank you. That really opens it up, and helps with my own reading, besides. It's a bit ominous, but also a kind of heroic stance--it makes sense of the card's place in my son's reading, as well. One can be "hanged" for a treasonous view, of course, or simply punished for the crime of seeing the world upside-down, with hierarchies inverted. Or, as you suggest, one can sacrifice himself for the greater good--as a means to overturn unjust hierarchies. It's a fascinating card.