Can tarot „disobey“ us in any way?

Warning: this will be very long post I will state my experience and I’ll appreciate every other’s experiences, comments and opinions on this topic. Also, English is not my native language, so sorry in advance for potential grammar mistakes and wrong expressions.

Question from the title of the thread also applies on all others tools for divination, but I'll try to stick just to the tarot. I'm interested in opinions of others 'cause I've already commented on this topic with many people who use runes, geomancy, I-Ching and so on and majority of them agrees with me – that all of that tools are just intermediaries between us and Universe, God or whosoever provides us answers and advices we ask for. So when we ask over and over again, that „whosoever“ sends us a message „stop asking, at least for some time“. It's my conclusion, at least for now, but I think that I won't change that opinion.

When I started with tarot I already been in some other branches of divination and knew that by „raping“ one or more divination tools one, after some time, start to receive completely wrong or, in the best case, confused and mixed answers. I tasted that on my own skin saw that just doesn't work on other people's examples and at least dozen other people who are using some divination tool(s) agreed with my opinion and conclusion. So when I began with tarot, I already had some clues and knowledge what to do and what not. I decided to move on slowly, step by step, in order to not repeat my and other people's mistakes.

First step was to „address“ to those „higher force“ whose provides answers and tell that I’ll, at first, I will use cards just for practice and in order to learn specific meanings of my own deck and that it won’t be any kind of misuse and “raping” cards. So I asked bunch of people to ask me a questions on which they can provide me feedback in some reasonable time (from a day or two to a few months, even a year if it takes so much time), did readings for myself (I don’t do it for a long time, but at start I was) and asked questions for friends who weren’t interested in tarot, or, rather, don’t believe in divination at all and consider people who are engaged in such activities as weirdos. Eg. friend texts me that she had huge brawl with her husband and that she needs my advice; then I ask “what their quarrel was about?” and in day or two after that she tells me what happened and I compare her story with cards I pulled. I still don’t think that was violation of ethics, ‘cause I did it for practice, not to spy and stalk anyone and those people would anyway tell me what happened. I answered on questions even if I considered silly many of them (eg. “will I have good time at the party/club/date tonight?”) because I wanted to “collect” as many as possible meanings of the cards. Usually in books and all other texts (on sites, blogs etc) we find some general, in many cases even “spiritual” meanings of cards, but not trivial meanings. But right that “trivial” and “barely significant/insignificant” meanings I find more important than “spiritual meanings”, because, ‘till today, I’ve never, never been asked for advice about spiritual development, or “what is the root of my problems?” (of any kind) ie “what’s wrong with ME and/or MY approach, what needs to change in MYUSELF”; and I’ve been asked maybe dozen (or even less) times for advice, but also on “material things”, eg “what I need to do to draw his/her romantic attention”. All other questions were like “Will I marry this year?”, “Will I get the job I want?”, “When will I start new relationship?”, “Will he propose me soon?” and so on (those were most serious questions I got and I’m still getting; I’ve mentioned that there were almost pointless, but at the start I accepted almost every question whose could provide me every possible meaning of some card and didn’t violate my ethics code).

But soon I realized how many people, more online than in RL, are real addicts in literal sense of that word and that there are silly and stupid questions and that, by giving answers on every “stupid” question, that “higher force” can at one moment refuse to give correct answers at least for some time. Here’s one example: one girl asked me if she ever travel all over the world and I refuse to do that reading. Why? I would never get feedback. She is in her mid 30s, has only high school, has no job, isn't married, doesn't have a dime, still depends on her parents (whose aren't wealthy at all, both of them earning just for barely decent existence and not a penny more) and there's almost no chance that she'll ever manage to save enough money even for weekend in some European capital, let alone „travelling all over the world“. So I consider that question is stupid because she asked it just for fun, she was bored and 'cause she asked me at least 10 times when she'll marry, does she already know her future husband, how he looks like, where and when they will meet and so on, she probably asked first question that crossed her mind at that moment. If you think that there are no stupid and pointless questions, I have more examples but I’ll back to it later.

My method of practicing was to write down all questions and pulled cards and when I receive feedback compare my original interpretation with outcome, so I after some time ruled out some meanings, find many “minor” meanings for almost all cards – I’m saying “many” and “almost” ‘cause there are thousands of meanings of every card and it all depends on question in hand, our approach, I think that we're all will be students of tarot as long as we dealing with him etc… but back to topic. After some time, maybe a year, I “announced” that I won’t answer on questions that I consider stupid and pointless; in fact there was one more reason: some people (like girl I mentioned as example, including her) practically deluged me with their questions, several times per day, and I (in private ) told to some more serious people, with which I already commented on this topic and eventually exchanged readings ‘cause some of them, as I mentioned, are using some divination tool(s) to feel free to continue asking me questions, but more sensible than “I have crush on my acquaintance, will we meet in next 3 days and will he give me some sign that he likes me too?” and I started to doing CC (which is still my favorite spread) more than 3 cards spreads. There still were questions for fun and/or curiosity, but to a much, much lesser extent, pretty rarely and I orderly received feedbacks so I didn’t have problem with that and I slowly became to be pretty serious in my readings, almost like real professional, only difference was that I did readings for free (which I still do and I’ve never did reading for money).

But then began to occur some odd things. At first, sometimes after even a “small” reading on significant questions (eg. “will I pass my exam?” for which I would pull one or 3 cards) I felt exhausted, like I did reading for hours. Also, answers I received from the cards started to be more and more confusing and then I started to discuss with people why is that happening and majority of them concluded same thing that I wrote at the beginning of this post: if you use some divination tool(s) too much, especially if you use to ask pointless questions or ask something just ‘cause you’re bored and something almost insignificant crossed your mind at the moment and you ask tarot (or some other oracle cards, runes, horary, geomancy and so on) after some time, you’ll start to receive completely wrong or, in the best case, confusing answers.

After that, the first thing I did was to definitely stop doing readings for myself (‘cause I’ve already concluded that I’m obviously projecting my wishes/worries and cards give me that “projected” answer and outcome, in majority of cases, had little to do with reading, although I have never been “tarot addict”) and even more decreased the number of people for whose I did readings. The second was that I again “announced” that I won’t give answers on “short-time questions” ie questions on which querent will find out the answer soon. Then I put all my decks, although I used just one, in a box and put the box in the cabinet and didn’t read the cards for few months. There was 2 or 3 exceptions, when some of my close RL friends had big problems and needed advice and clue how and when their problems will be resolved, but excepting that cases, I didn’t touch my cards nor I asked someone else to do reading for me. Since then, I do readings just for close friends and people with which I communicate online for years (regardless if we meet personally or not), from time to time and only when I consider that is not just for fun and out of pure curiosity and that question is really important to one who asks. Answers still aren’t 100% accurate as they were when I was pure beginner and answered on almost totally insignificant questions (“will I have good time at the party tonight?” – for god’s sake, why is that so important??? And at the begining cards were giving so precise answers that it's almost incredibly), and still sometimes I don’t touch my cards for weeks ‘cause there’s no need to do that. My final conclusion is that cards and all other divination and oracle tools can became unruly if we are disrespect them, take them for granted and using them just for fun, or they're just convey that message from that "force" whose provides answers on our questions.

I know that here are many members who will not agree with me at all, or just in some parts of my post, but again, I’d like to hear every comment and opinion.

Regards,
Cor

From your description, it sounds very much like a 'Tarot burnout', i.e. the kind of tiredness that you get when you do too many readings for a lengthy period of time. In fact, burnouts can happen in any kind of activities, be it excessive computer gaming, obsessive sewing or extensive volleyball training. You could try leaving Tarot completely for a month - not touching the cards, not even reading about them. You'll be amazed at the results.

Talking about 'obeying' - no, I don't believe Tarot and/or any higher powers that work through it can 'punish' you by silence or giving confusing answers. However, when you're tired, emotionally invested in the question or have done readings on it a zillion times, then you'll be confused and you'll have trouble understanding and interpreting even the clearest and the most concise cards. Imagine yourself being tired and sleepy, and trying to listen to a lecture in nuclear physics - if you don't understand it, does it necessarily mean the lecture is bad?

I agree very much with what dancing_moon has said. This is simply burnout. You're working out your psychic muscles and are probably not a seasoned pro yet. Thus, you're bound to get tired more easily. When you study hard the same thing can happen and you end up in a mode of diminishing returns. I don't know if a whole month away is necessary, but maybe a week. Maybe even two. Once you're back and performing an "acceptable" (to you) level of ease you can try again, being mindful of when you notice you're feeling psychic strain and taking breaks.

I agree with the above two posters. The problem really does sound like burn-out and has been mentioned, it can happen with any activity, not just spiritual ones. You probably need to take a lengthy time away from tarot and even all divination forms.

Don't have much time for writing, but just for record - I did this about five years and, as I tried to explain, after that initial period of "connecting" with my deck and searching for "trivial" meanings of cards, which lasted not more than a year, I didn't do readings all the time. At first few months it was sometimes 4-5 short readings (one or 3 cards spreads) per day; at the end of that period, when I realised that I'm not complete novice any more and that I've learned enough to consider myself begginer with some essential knowledge of every card, I did readings maybe3-4 times per week. As time was passing, I did readings less and less frequently, but more seriously, so I'm not so sure that I just burnt out 'cause I was completely devoted just to that activity. As I said, for maybe 2-3 years, since I've had my "rest" of tarot and my deck has its rest of me which lasted 4-5 months, I do readings from time to time, just when I decide that it's really needed. Sometimes 1-2 times per month, sometimes one in 3 months, depends on situations, questions and querents.

Idk, maybe all of you are right, but if it's the case, I'm not sure why it applies to me and some people with whom I've already discussed about it (and probably there are many other people on the world which have similar experience), but not at other people who behaved in same or similar way, ie doing readings pretty often, are less "selective" with questions than me and so on, and still getting quite accurate answers.

I'm still waiting for more opinions and comments

Regards,
Cor

I think it is an interesting question, but it also goes to how someone thinks Tarot works, if at all. You mentioned God or higher powers in your post, for example. If the messages come from an unseen power, can not doing what we tell them really be called disobedience? Isn't any communication from God a gift to revere? Would not any message have at least something to offer, some wisdom? What would be the correct process for placating those powers, so that they would do our bidding? Do we even want them to?

What if it isn't a higher power, but, for example, the cards themselves? Assuming for a moment a deck of cards is an entity that can obey or disobey, how intelligent is it? Does it have our best interests at heart? What if disobedience is actually its way of showing us some unseen wisdom, as in the answer is not to ask that question, but a very different one? And again, how would one placate such an entity? Meditation and "grounding" help us, would the "Tarot entity" be impressed? If so, why? Say one is an atheist, and yet still claims the cards have a "power." Is that any different from worshipping a god? Does that god hold us up to a moral code, whereby some "good" questions are answered while others seeking to do harm wouldn't be?

More practically, say you did ask if you would pass the test, is that in itself a guarantee of success? If the answer was yes, would stopping studying for the test and not taking it seriously still mean success? Wouldn't a question dealing with the best ways to succeed be more useful?

Me, my readings are never wrong, because I don't expect them to be right.

Cor serpentis said:

I'm still waiting for more opinions and comments

Regards,
Cor

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I can totally relate to what you wrote. What you outline is the main reason I gave up doing readings (except for the right people on subjects I felt appropriate). For me tarot can have a much deeper application and represents a whole system of spiritual teaching and psychological mapping that is very beneficent. Readings IME are most often about the 'big three' ; love, sex, power - in one way or another ... sometimes travel. The same as magic .... people want to use it to get some mundane thing , not as a tool of development.

Also with New Age stuff - I totally dissed the 'Power of Attraction' concept (and of course got reinterpreted and some people angry at me for 'attacking their belief system' ) because, although the CONCEPT is certainly known and accepted, even by some areas of modern medicine ( visualising healthy cells attacking cancerous ones, etc ) it is put to a stupid use ... look at the doco , people are trying to use it to get diamonds,clothing, jewelry, a seat at a restaurant, a higher bank balance and a new bicycle .

Regardless from what source tarot developed, in some cases this is what it has become; a tool for great potential and growth being used for base purposes - now, if you feel like that about it ... you set wheels in motion. If you dont feel like that - it may not matter to you.

Occasionally I might chip in on a question here about a relationship or something similar if it seems the person is stuck in a rut or an unhealthy mind set , but generally steer away from ; 'How can I tell if that guy at work likes me or not?' ... and such questions , most of the time it as an obvious answer that doesnt need a tarot consultation.

But thats the way it is ... some people will use their astrology to gain insight and knowledge about themselves and spend years studying the subject and some will just read their newspaper astro post each day to see what sort of a day they are going to have ... or read someone else's that they are attracted to or associated with.

But, for me, this was all conscious and my decision, I dont feel it came about from any higher power or 'Gods of Tarot'. Normally I would say that such externalisations are a projection of what you feel about it ... but lately I have been getting flogged for my views on 'psychological projection' .... it seems to be coming 'back into fashion', the idea of certain 'objective other realities'; the idea that we are not THAT responsible and 'outside forces' are able to exist separate from us and influence our psyches. IMO it is a flux and interaction of BOTH these views.

In any case I would say that you have outgrown a puerile use of Tarot, and that's why it wont work that way anymore.

So I agree with your final conclusion in your first post ... but I dont think the concept of ' that "force" who provides answers on our questions' is as simple or 'cut and dried' as some make out ... 'whoever sends us the message' may well be, or have some interaction with parts of ourselves that we are not aware of ... or even can not be aware of ?

Of course, your " My final conclusion is that cards and all other divination and oracle tools can became unruly if we are disrespect them, take them for granted and using them just for fun." is a basic and age old magical premise ... and the results have been outlined for a couple of thousand years in a famous 'legend' ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8gOh0wEgLg

I agree with dancing_moon and esspeet. I think as far as you feeling exhausted and getting mixed answers its because for one reason or another, in some way, you are over using any abilities or perhaps a particular reading is more exhausting than others. Other people might not experience it like you do so it seems they aren't exhausted and you are so you feel perhaps something is amiss. Or they have learned techniques to help them deal with it.

I think sometimes we can get tired of tarot, and other forms of divination, so things become muddled or confusing when we try readings or try pulling answers out of divination tools. While I don't feel like tarot can disobey because its more or less a set divinatory system I do believe pendulums like to disobey... or troll rather. I have the worst luck with pendulums giving me any real answer. All except for one time.

I don't think that.... if we speak to a source greater than us, regardless of whatever each individual believes it to be, that they punish us. I don't use tarot to predict and I feel its a tool to explore the spiritual and the subconscious as well as a tool to give guidance and help oneself grow. However each person uses the tarot I think what matters to get a "good" reading is that they believe in themselves, the tool they're using and their beliefs about it and how its to be used. I'm rather tired so I hope I made sense.

I'd like to tell you some things from my experience, hoping it would be of some help.

I've done all kinds of readings - some of them you'd call 'trivial' (like 'how will the party go on Friday?' or 'why didn't my boyfriend 'Like' my new photo on Facebook?'), some of them deep and life-changing, and everything in between. However, when I read cards, I don't see myself competent or even willing to determine if the question is trivial or not, if it's asked seriously or out of boredom/curiosity. What's trivial for me might be serious for someone else, and vice versa. The only types of questions that I consciously refuse to read about include areas I'm not knowledgeable about, like spell work, health issues, legal and financial advice, etc.

Basically, I see my task as that of a deciphering expert: I get a message, and I decipher it for the person who asked the question. In this respect, every question and every message is 'important' and 'non-trivial', and I try to treat it as such, i.e. decipher it to the best of my knowledge and ability. The rest is up to the person who asked the question.

I've noticed that over time my understanding of the cards has been constantly increasing, and along with that my 'accuracy' (by which I understand relevance of the messages I get through Tarot). If I ever do get tired doing readings or get confusing/irrelevant messages, it's usually due to one of three reasons:

- low energy level (caused by anything - burnout, illness, general tiredness, problems at work, etc.)
- if I don't know the deck very well
- if I take up too much responsibility for the outcome of the reading; in this case I remind myself that each person's life is their own responsibility; for me, this is the essence of true freedom

These have been my experiences, anyway. Hope you can find something helpful in them.

All of these posts were insightful and helpful, thanks for comments (but this doesn’t mean that I don’t want to hear further responses, experiences and opinions )

@closrapexa – yeah, I completely forgot to include that aspect in my post – my opinion which principle is base for „working“ tarot and all other divination and oracle tools. But now is easier to explain i.e. to shorten explanation. I believe that all of that ARE just cards, stones and so on but, by giving them a meaning and our personal energy, they become just intercessors between us and that higher entity which provides us answers. Maybe “disobedience” wasn’t right expression or, rather, I didn’t properly explained what I meant. That entity isn’t “disobedient“per se, but I think that, after some time, it starts to sends us messages through cards like “now is enough, stop doing that, at least for a while”, but ‘cause we maybe can’t make sense of our readings and/or receive mixed and confused answers, messages comes in form of wrong answers, until we figure out that we overextended with using cards. That’s the reason of my “addressing” to that “force” I mentioned in the first post.

I still think that cards (or something else) can’t be entity by themselves ‘cause in that case, every person could take tarot deck, deck of some other cards, stones and so on and say “this card/stone represents that and nothing more” and there would not be need for establishing some basic meanings of those entities on which we can only add or rule out some meanings but not totally change basic meaning. I mean, if I take, eg, 3 of swords as card with most beautiful meanings on the world, without any bad meaning, and do same with every card and everyone who reads tarot do the same, what’s the point then? All of us doubtless have different opinions and experiences with every card, I’m writing and reading posts on this forum just because of that – to hear others experiences and views and share mine, but I can’t remember that I saw some interpretation of some card which is totally unrelated with its basic meanings. The second reason for which I believe that it can’t be just entity, either by itself or ‘cause we gave to it some meanings and our “energy”, is that we’re all just ordinary people and I can’t see myself as someone with “higher powers” who can make powerful entity for divination from 78 nice pictures. I’ll repeat myself, but I have to underline again, in order not to be misunderstood – we learn basic meanings, and then, throughout our experiences and maybe intuition, add and rule out some of that meanings, but I’ve never seen that someone gave to some card meaning which is totally unrelated with its basic meaning (as I cite example of 3oS).

But as I said, I’m interested in every opinion and view and I’ll appreciate every single one This thread is actually arise as result from one other thread where from question of meanings of some cards where querent yet in introducing post started with ironical interpretations, I tried to be serious and gave my opinion, mentioned that everyone has right to his own approach on the cards and purpose in which use them, but he answered me, in obviously insulting way, that it is just deck of cards and ‘cause I take it so seriously, something’s probably wrong with me. Than we definitely went off topic (with other members who have joined the debate) and started to comment if there are “stupid” and “silly” questions, is it right to use tarot just for fun, can tarot “has a grudge” and “pay back” to us in any way if we “abuse” and “misuse” it and so on. ‘Cause of that thread is locked, some posts are deleted and I was given approval to start new thread here about that topic(s), I reformulate my basic question(s) and start this thread, in order to hear opinions of others. My initial premise is that tarot&other divination and oracle tools can have grudge on us and be disobedient if we misuse and “rape” them with questions, especially for fun or out pure curiosity.

Regarding your example of exam – I usually use right that example when I am trying to explain that some things depends on us and nothing/no one else. Now on that question I wouldn’t do reading at all, I’d just say “take your books and notes, study and you’ll pass exam”, but when I was pure novice, I’d say the same, but still pull the cards just to see which cards would represent passing/failing exam.

@Ravenest – whether we liked it or not, most people are interested in material things and all their questions are about it. I wrote it in my first post. I’ve never been asked about one’s personal/spiritual development, what’s the psychological root of their problems (eg why one can’t keep stable relationship or friendship) and what person needs to change in his/her behavior in order to resolve those problems or just be better person and so on. So I’ve had to try to find the way to use tarot not for pure divination and answer on questions which begins with “Will I/who/when/where/how” not only with e.g. “you will/will not/for the year/that person” etc, but I also always tried to provide some advice which way is the best to achieve goal and/or change it. But my advices on changing goals or even approaches to some problem hadn’t been welcomed in majority of the cases. People just want to know will they get what they want and if they will, when, can they do something to speed up that process; if cards say “you will not get what you want” they’ll probably ask what they need to do to however get what they want… sad but true. It wasn’t just my experience, I saw many of those kind of questions online or heard such examples from other readers.

And regarding your opinion (just for record) I totally agree with your opinions on all new age “inventions”.

Regarding your other comments, here’s one more of my beliefs, relating to believing in existence of “higher forces”: whether karma/reincarnation and our “debts from past lives” exists or not (it’s just separate and spacious theme! We already have many related topics for debate on this thread, so I rather would not expand this thread with that matter), I believe that major part of our lives is predestined (by that “higher force”) and that we have very small percentage of our free volition. So the best thing we can do (regarding things, circumstances and events that we have no influence at all) is to give our best to become better persons, to slowly become more and more “spiritual” in order to calmly and serenely accept all shocks, nasty surprises and heinous strokes of the fate. And tarot is pretty powerful tool to help us to do that, i.e. to provide us hints or even clear advices what to do and what not to do in order to achieve that goal. I surely don’t even close to final stage of that goal, but I’m trying to work on myself, not only by using tarot, meditation and so on, but also to hear truly opinions and adopt advice and suggestions of people that I’m close with, without huff, how to avoid or not repeat some mistakes ‘cause I’m use to ask them, from time to time, to point me if I’m repeatedly doing something wrong (in moral, ethical, any other sense). And ‘cause I am still not so serene that I can accept every bigger shock and blow of destiny without any wrath and bate, when somethnig really bothers me, I have major problem or just my intuition “tells” me that something bad will occur, I use tarot for divination to be at least prepared for potential disaster and I always ask for advice (i.e. include/ask one who doing reading for me to include that position in spread) what is recommended to do in situation in hand.

@TheStarAndTheMoon – I think that already wrote almost all what I’d answer to your post, hope that you’ll figure which of my remarks refers to which part of your post but anyway thanks for answer (don’t’ get me wrong, I read your post and appreciate your including to thread, I just don’t want to repeat myself over and over again and make mini-novel of this post, althrough I obviously already did that ). And just for record, I don’t use pendulum, but I spoke with some people who uses it – experiences are pretty same as yours.

@dancing_moon – thanks for sharing your personal experience. I’ll surely think about it and maybe for some time change my opinion (I certainly wouldn’t open this thread if I wasn’t open-minded and interested in all kinds of views and judgements on topic(s)). In meantime, I hope that it’ll be helpful for someone else, ‘cause from your point of view it has sense.

Once again, thank you all (but as I noted, this doesn’t mean that I consider that topic is concluded and that there’s nothing more to say )

Regards,
Cor