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'Understanding the Tarot Court' Study Group #1

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Little Baron  Little Baron is offline
Join Date: 18 Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 9,963
Little Baron 

Just to say - thanks for posting this exercise Rhiannon. I have been looking for this book and have been discussing it with Centaur who has greatened my interest. I will have a go at the exercise tomorrow when I am more awake and can concentrate. I just received the 'Grimaud' (thanks once again, Chris) so it will be good to try the exercise with that deck.

Some really interesting responses so far. Are you going to continue posting the exercises for discussion? The courts is always a problem for so many of us and a great proposition for a study group.


Top   #11
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Rhiannon  Rhiannon is offline
Join Date: 07 Aug 2001
Location: VA, USA
Posts: 1,834

Absolutely, Yaboot! I know what a problem many of us have with the court cards and that is why I was so excited by this book. It has also been suggested that we use other exercises from different sources and I think that's a good idea too.

I think I will begin a new thread for each exercise, so we don't get confused as to what we are replying to and what we are supposed to be comparing everyone's answers with.

I also have a book called "The Tarot Court Cards" by Warwick-Smith, so I will go through that and add stuff from that book that I find helpful.

I'm so glad that people are enjoying the group and doing the exercises. I'm learning alot about the cards you have chosen and why you chose them. What a great side-effect!
Top   #12
Little Baron  Little Baron is offline
Join Date: 18 Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 9,963
Little Baron 
Thumbs up

Yes, I think it is a great idea. Unless I am unaware of a previous proposition, I can't think of why nobody thought of it before. The courts can be very confusing and having a study like this could help some of us 'crack them'. I was looking for both the 'court' books in shops but had no luck; I think that working through the exercises on here with others, however, will be more beneficial than going it alone with just the book. It's good to compare and contrast; to discuss the whys and why nots that made us choose one court over another, as we are in this exercise. As I said, I am using the Grimaud and these courts are very different to the ones I am used to so I imagine that they will be based quite strongly on their suit and other specifics, rather than my attraction to how the 'figure' looks in the card. I will post my response when finished.

Top   #13
Little Baron  Little Baron is offline
Join Date: 18 Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 9,963
Little Baron 

Ok ...

I have eliminated quite a few of the court cards and am left with ...

Valet de Coupe (Knave Cups)
Cavalier de Baton (Knight Clubs)
Reyne de Baton (Queen Clubs)

I didn't really relate to any of the Pentacles suit as I am not the most grounded of individuals, and in terms of finances, I am pretty bad. Like a lot of people here, the King of Pentacles would be a strong opposite to me.

I held on to the cups and batons - I can be quite sensitive and am artistic so they seemed the driving forces and why I chose them. I chose the Knave because of my innocence to some degree, the knight because of my occasional 'throw yourself into things' attitude and the Queen because there is an element of holding things in and liking some time to digest and gain introspection, rather than being always active.

I always saw myself as a 'cups person' or possibly a 'sword', but this is an interesting exercise, because I think that at the moment, I see myself as the 'Valier de Baton'; there is an intensity in me but right now, it is not developed enough to be any of the higher suit cards and not fresh enough to be the knave.

The opposite energy would probably be any of the Pentacles suit, since I regrard them to be good planners, organised, in touch with the earth and stable, which at the moment, I am not.

It is interesting to see how my perception of myself has changed somewhat without even considering it.

Did that make sense?


Edited to add: Just looking at the card and my first reaction is 'that's not me'. However, further looking is showing me just how much more 'like me' the card is than the ones I had previously considered myself to be like. I was supposed to be a fire sign but due to being born very premature, I was born a fire sign. Maybe that is the conflict. The sensitive side is within water but my rush to get out and not die (which was what was thought was going to happen) shows the firey side of this Cavalier. Any thoughts???
Top   #14
Indigo_lady's Avatar
Indigo_lady  Indigo_lady is offline
Join Date: 21 Mar 2003
Location: God forsaken middle of everything, :)
Posts: 317

Thanks Rhiannon... it is indeed an excellent idea

I used the Robin Wood deck for the excercise

for myself I chose the Queen of Pentacles as a significator. She is the mother type, down to earth, practical, yet comforting, and yes I do like material things, they're useful...

But I also chose the Queen of Wands, it's like my fighter. Sometimes when I find myself in problems or when it's necessary to change/fight something I bring out the Queen of Wands because she is actually more focused than the Queen of Pentacles, takes more risk and is more likely to finish what she started.

I believe that at different stages in your life you are different people, depending on what your environment requires you to be to succeed / learn

But when it comes to my nemesis I've got the King, the Queen and the knight of swords in front of me, and I can't decide on which annoys me the most. How self righteous they are, how they don't comit mistakes and they have they have the authority (sometimes only in their heads) to tell you what to do. I have several of them around me due to circumstances, and they drive me crazy, but I guess it's because I have to learn something from them...

By the way, I don't see the King of Pentacles that bad... he just bores me to death ... hehehehe

I'm wondering what happens when you try this excercise with other decks... would the outcome be the same?
Top   #15
Little Baron  Little Baron is offline
Join Date: 18 Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 9,963
Little Baron 


I think that that there would be simularities and differences. I just recieved the Tarot of Marseilles so as part of my learning with that, I used it for these exercises. It was good because I focused completely on the suit and which court it was to make my decisions; the pictures in the grimaud courts, although they are all different, are all quite similar, so I wasn't distracted too much by the physical image of the characters. If I had used my Rohrig or my Phantasmagoric (which is a good example), I would have firstly noticed the personalities of the very extreme courts in those decks. I would have based a lot of my likeness to one of the Phantasmagoric cards due to the written history of the characters we had researched into through the study forums so intensively, and I think that due to spending a lot of time with that deck, it would have clouded the message somewhat for me.

I suppose that also, in terms of the pictures shown in those decks, as an example, what I see in one page of swords, is not so much what I have gained in experience and connected to the page in another deck. When a certain court comes up, I often get that instant feeling shoot through me; almost like an unseen keyword, which can be distracting. The Knight of Swords for example, in the Phantasmagoric is an extremely strong character but is different from that of the Universal Waite, which would bring up a different set of keywords. Using cards I didn't know well was a good one for this. Maybe I should try it again with a different deck and see what differences there are.

Hope that answered your question a bit, even if I answered it in a round about way.

Best wishes

Top   #16
inanna_tarot's Avatar
inanna_tarot  inanna_tarot is offline
Join Date: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Devon UK
Posts: 5,233
Sezo's turn

just did this exercise, i was thinking just to read these exercises but alas i'm here. Look what happens when you have way too much time on your hands

First card that jumped out at me is the Queen of Pentacles. In readings others have done for me, this has been my card, i see this card in any readings i do for myself and its always close to the centre because this is me! So friendly, down to earth, always looking for a practical solution. I have religious beliefs, but rather than being wands, i associate them with the Earth/Pents because i'm Pagan . The Queen will help anyone out and is reassuring and ready for that pep talk when its needed.
But, like the Queen I like the finer things in life. Being an Venus Child (Sun in Libra, ASC in Taurus!) I need beautiful things and people (more importantly inner beauty than hunks). I just see this Queen and see me on a chair with a deck lol.

But, i have another card like me, and thats the Knight of Swords. When i dont think things through, i do rush in head first (My Queen was taking the day off i think ) and just i dont have all the experience so i can get abit lost or out of my depth. The Knight shows my ability to learn and grow. Also my Airy nature as a Libra and i see myself as a libra in training lol. Everything i buy, i do has to be justified, or rather justifying myself why i cant stay in bed alll day (lazy Taurus there in her nice comfortable bed ).

My nemisis, as always thats tricky...
I dont get on with cups, because although i wouldnt say i'm an intuitive dunce, emotionally i just dont get all that stuff. I'm sensitive but romance and all that just makes me wanna heave. Sorry! I dont believe in marriage and i'll be alright being a spinster with some cats and a few decks to keep me company.

Wands seem odd to me. All that rushing around and bravado ohh my Queen doesnt like any of that. Its all fiery confrontations and creativity and artistic tempermants. Definately not for my Queen, and my Knight just doesnt find any logic in that at all!
Saying that, my nemisis would be.. King of Wands. Although i was tempted to go King of Cups (being into all that romantic sensitive new-man stuff), but its the King of Wands. He comes over thinking hes all charming and smooth thinking he's IT, dressed up to the nines and hes going to wow me with some chat up line. Although most of the guys i've seen try this could be more Knight of Wands than King, the King just, just makes me want to jump on my feminist soap box lol. PLUS he wants to go out and do out door activities and is probably into way too much sport and unless i get a comfy car outside, theres no way i'm doing rock climbing or any of that crap. lol.

Ohh, bit of a ramble there,
Top   #17
Anna's Avatar
Anna  Anna is offline
Join Date: 09 Jul 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,352

I chose the Spiral deck for this exercises, because this decks court cards are fabulous

I chose the queen of swords as the one most like me. I suspected that I would choose her, she has been the card I keep coming back to as a significator. I see her as a woman of wisdom gained through experience. There is something sad about her, almost that she knows too much and it is a heavy burden that she carries. She can be accused of being cold and distant, yet I think that this queen is very much in tune with her intuition and has a huge capacity for feeling for others. These are aspects of her that I relate too. I thrive when I am studying and writing and my goals tend to be around academic achievements. I am overwhelmed with air in my birth chart, so she fits for me astrologically too.

Finding my nemesis was more difficult. I have a passionate dislike for the king of swords. He has been regularly turning up in my readings for years, usually when I have had a run in with my father. However, the things I dislike in him are traits that I suspect I possess within myself.

In the end, I've settled on the knight of pentacles for my nemesis. I can understand the king of pentacles a little, he has become set in his ways over the years. But the knight of pentacles is actively choosing, dare I say it, dullness. He seems to have no spirit of adventure and no desire to be different. My first boyfriend was a lot like him, his big dream for life was to own a nice house in a nice area with a nice family and a nice safe job. And I can understand wanting all these things after you have lived a little and explored life, but he was 17! He had no desire to do anything other than settle down quietly. As the queen of swords might say, anything is better than boredom

Thanks Rhiannon, this has been a very useful exercises, looking forward to the next one!
Top   #18
Indigo_lady's Avatar
Indigo_lady  Indigo_lady is offline
Join Date: 21 Mar 2003
Location: God forsaken middle of everything, :)
Posts: 317
Re: Sezo's turn

Originally posted by inanna_tarot

But, like the Queen I like the finer things in life. Being an Venus Child (Sun in Libra, ASC in Taurus!) I need beautiful things and people (more importantly inner beauty than hunks). I just see this Queen and see me on a chair with a deck lol.

what are the odds... hehehhehe

I chose the Queen of Pentacles too, and I'm a Venus child too: my Sun in Taurus and my ASC in Libra...

It's a small world after all....

And I totally agree with you on the finer things in life
Top   #19
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WolfSpirit  WolfSpirit is offline
~ Collector of words ~
Join Date: 10 May 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 14,216

Card most like me...
I hesitated between queen of pentacles and page of pentacles. Strictly speaking, queen would be more fitting for my age But the page comes up a lot for me in readings, and it is the pursuit of learning new things, expanding your horizon while at the same time staying safely grounded, not jumping before I know where I will land because - well, it is still pentacles.

My nemesis - I chose the knight of swords.
I see him as people that are always talking, always arguing just for the sake of wanting to win the argument. I don't like arguments much, especially not when they won't lead to anything. I just walk away and do what I want to anyway LOL
The knight of swords and I could probably learn a lot from each other though.
Top   #20



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