New Book??

Michael Sternbach

I know this book in its original German edition, called Tarot Basics Crowley. Its outstanding feature is that it literally spotlights every symbol on each card. In this, it rather takes a Jungian approach like Arrien than a Thelemic approach. Therefore, Crowley traditionalists probably won't like it much. Nevertheless, it is nicely visually arranged and not as superficial as one might think. But to each their own.
 

Thoughtful

l may just invest in this book, as your comments Michael have interested me, namely how the symbols are highlighted within each card. Symbols in decks have always intrigued me and from what l have seen of the Thoth in scans there are many. l also rather like the feel of the Jungian approach you mention. As with everything in life we all approach things from different angles, hopefully getting to the main nub of the matter.
As a longstanding Tarot reader with interests in many decks l decided it was time to explore the Thoth. This will be my first foray into the Thoth, so l will, as a complete beginner, need to enter this with literature that is not too overloaded.
It is not an expensive book so if it falls short l will not have wasted too much money.

To add: Been looking at the books and media thread and came across a recommendation by gregory, The Crowley Tarot The Handbook to the Cards. Plenty of those about new and used for sale, so may also invest in that as well.
 

Zephyros

Although my review may have been unnecessarily harsh, if not cruel, I have to ask, though, why would you buy it? As Michael said, it takes a radically different approach to the deck, essentially taking Crowley out of it, if I understand correctly. That's what Arrien did. If you go that route, why not make up your own meanings since, if you're not getting your information from the horse's mouth your opinion is basically as good as anyone's.

You won't be exploring the Thoth through this book, just as you don't explore it through Angeles Arrien or Zeigler. What you do is explore someone else's subjective impressions of it. It doesn't get to the main nub, and it isn't a question of going into literature that is too overloaded but simply wrong. There is simplified literature like Duquette, and there is literature that completely ignores everything the deck is. These books don't get to the same place by a different path. One takes you to the Thoth and the other takes you to Arrien or whoever.

Why? What's the point?
 

Thoughtful

l respect your opinion Zephyros and must say l am so confused as to where to go now book wise.
Obviously l want a book that explores the true Thoth essence so perhaps l should then start with Duquette. As a start off l need, as you say, a simplified read, l do not want to get into brain overload to early or l will get frustrated and lost. Thank you for your comments:)
 

Abrac

Sounds like an interesting book if it does indeed address each and every symbol. I'm starting to shy away from Llewellyn Publications though as nearly every paperback I have by them the front and back covers are peeling apart. You can fix it with super glue but who wants to do that. I might snag a copy if I can find a very cheap one used. :)
 

Michael Sternbach

When I got my first Thoth nearly 30 years ago, there were only two books available in German: The Book of Thoth and Ziegler's Mirror of the Soul. I liked the obvious esoteric depth of the BoT and started studying it at once. But I also liked the practical applicability of Ziegler which allowed me to do readings right away! I noticed and wondered about their differences, but it was not until much later that I learned about the dramatic development which had split the world of the Thothies in two.

In a nutshell, somewhen in the early 80s (I believe), a Jungian shaman called Angeles Arrien did the unthinkable: She published a book on the Thoth based on an intuitive understanding of its symbolism, that is, without paying due respect to Crowley's genius and, even worse, without taking the intricacies of Crowley's elaborate system into account. It goes without saying that Crowley purists abhor her book to this day, but many others felt that it had for the first time opened for them a gate to the rich symbology of the Thoth, plus the book proved useful in readings. Other Tarot authors soon followed in Arrien's wake. Most notably Ziegler, a spiritual counsellor whose books I found helpful in my own counselling sessions, especially when working with groups. Also, among others, Wanless, Tarantino (my favourite besides the BoT), and later Bürgin and Fiebig.

It took them quite some time, but after they had finally got over the shock and found the necessary confidence, the traditionalists struck back: DuQuette and Smulkin wrote books that adhered to Crowley overall, but dared translate his own, often rather unintelligible commentary on his deck to something that most intelligent lay people could cope with.

Banzhaf occupies a position somewhere inbetween, it would seem. Many Thothies more ir less respect him despite the considerable liberties he took; but at least he represented a step away from the dreadful blasphemy commited by Arrien and her followers.

So, to this day, the two approaches to the Thoth are classified by the Crowley purists as right and wrong. Based on my own experience with the Thoth, I beg to differ. I prefer to call them intellectual and intuitive. Scholarly and empirical. Yang and Yin. They are there for a reason, and there is value to be found in both of them.

So, Thoughtful, if you feel you resonate with the book that is the topic of this thread, I would suggest you get it. Perhaps buy one of the books approved of by the trads additionally. Eventually, you must find out how the Thoth wants to communicate with you, anyway.

Hope this helps.
 

MissChiff

Well I myself will get the book... Because well it's for the Thoth and there aren't many... Good or bad it still going in my collection...
 

Samweiss

I don't have problems with the authors exploring different views on Thoth. I'd still advise anyone interested in this book to at least wait for the reviews, because the last book from the same authors has gotten a lot of negative critique, especially about the quality of translation. Apparently the English version is riddled with errors on the symbolism. Even Zephyros mentioned in this thread that some parts of the preview seemed confusing. Isn't anyone worried they might get a dodgy product?
 

Samweiss

And for a newbie who is interested in Thoth, my advise would be to start learning from DuQuette and all those other "traditionalists" because they practically teach the way how the deck's creator intended the deck to be used, also his philosophy about the deck. After getting basic grounding, the student is free to explore different takes on Thoth in order to make the deck his/her own. Just my two cents.
 

smw

So, to this day, the two approaches to the Thoth are classified by the Crowley purists as right and wrong. Based on my own experience with the Thoth, I beg to differ. I prefer to call them intellectual and intuitive.

hmmm...I am not familiar with historical feuds or camps. What I have understood from this thread so far when mentioned is that a subjective interpretation of the Thoth is not so much about being wrong, but whether such interpretations are actually about the Thoth. That seems to me to be more of a factual issue.

I am not sure either what you mean by intellectual. I understand that as being the area of thoughts, ideas and concepts. I can't see why those who like Jungian approaches to the Thoth would only use intuition switching off any thinking... maybe I am misunderstanding you?

For me I can find at times Crowley's descriptions of symbols and interpretations in the Book of Thoth cryptic, or overwhelming with lots of references from different sources, mythology etc,.However, maybe this is because while it is useful to have an informed (academic/intellectual) basis, too concrete meanings would limit and stifle personal, intuitive subjective understandings.

I am not sure there is a need to take an either/or approach.

eta as an aside I find trying to read Jung like that too, he gives a mind boggling amount of references, names, myths, ideasl, concepts until I have forgotten what the point was or what he actually thinks or whether he is just laying out the table with an informed background to the topics he is discussing.