AngelDancer
I wouldn't worry about it. Some people just like to shit stir.
Use of card images on Instagram (copyright and fair use)
KristinCali
Are you really serious?? Somebody just wants to post informative, insightful tarot readings and has no harmful intentions, and you would wish that on them?
AngelDancer
I wouldn't mind if they did it to me. It's a joke and would most likely get laughed out of court. I wish harm on no living being. You are taking that comment WAY too literally.
My point is that this is nothing but an empthy threat... Actually, that alone has put me off Llewellyn's decks. Time for a boycott.
Aster Breo
I have no idea if Llewellyn would actually sue in this case. It would probably cost more to sue than they could recoup in damages from this particular person. But, whether they sued or not, it's still clear copyright infringement. If they did sue, the case wouldn't get laughed out of court. Llewellyn would likely win.
Yes, this kind of thing happens all the time without individuals being sued. Sometimes that's because the copyright holder isn't aware of the infringement. Sometimes it's because the copyright holder doesn't think it's worth the cost to sue. Sometimes it's because the copyright holder asks the person to take the post down, and they comply, so it's no longer an issue.
And it's also true that some people don't mind when others use their art or writing or other intellectual property without permission. (Other people do mind -- for example, musicians generally don't like websites that allow people to download music without paying for it.)
However, none of that changes the fact that posting pictures of somebody else's art without permission is copyright infringement, at least in the US.
And, just for the record, yes, I am a lawyer.
AngelDancer
And, just for the record, yes, I am a lawyer.
First of all, my condolences.
Secondly, 'damages'... for free advertising...? lol
Thirdly, to my knowledge nobody in the Tarot community has been sued over posting Tarot cards images. Do you know differently?
Aster Breo
First of all, my condolences.
LOL. Thank you. ;-)
Yes. The advertising aspect is irrelevant to the copyright infringement.
Although, in this particular case, I suspect the best Llewellyn could probably do would be to get the person to stop posting their pics.
No. But I'm not part of that community, so...
I DO know of many similar cases that aren't tarot related, though.
And, a lot of people doing it doesn't make it legal.
Some companies are more protective of their copyrights than others are. Disney is an example of a company that is pretty aggressive about it.
Here's a blog post about copyright and trademark that describes how Etsy shops get shut down over this issue: http://www.handmadeology.com/you-ha...tsy-was-shut-down-for-copyright-infringement/
Also, just for the sake of complete information: There are exceptions to the US copyright law that allow certain limited uses of copyrighted material. I kinda doubt that any of those exceptions would apply to someone posting pics of tarot cards without permission, but maybe an argument could be made. (Maybe that an individual card is such a small portion of the deck that it would fall under the "fair use" exception -- but I think the counter argument that each card is its own work of art is pretty strong.) Without all the facts, I can't really speculate.
But if anyone really wants to know more about this, Google "copyright infringement" and "fair use".
(And, again, I'm speaking ONLY about US law. I know much less about international copyright law, and almost nothing about other countries' copyright law.)
AngelDancer
You're right, just because everybody is doing it doesn't make it right... HOWEVER...
Common sense dictates that in the case of posting a picture of a card or a tarot spread in a natural setting (not scanned) on social media, and not to sell copies of the copyrighted artwork, does constitute fair usage and that is how I will view it until specifically told otherwise.
Common sense also dictates that Tarot publishers are getting ridiculous amounts of free advertising this way which is why none of the other publishers objected. Personally, I would urge Llewelly to get a new legal advisor since he is already doing the company damage.
I have been a longstanding member of the Tarot community and have seen discussions like this crop up before... and I have yet to see a Tarotist get sued over it. Llewellyn can huff and puff all they want. But for now they will see no more of my money.
Common sense dictates that in the case of posting a picture of a card or a tarot spread in a natural setting (not scanned) on social media, and not to sell copies of the copyrighted artwork, does constitute fair usage and that is how I will view it until specifically told otherwise.
Common sense also dictates that Tarot publishers are getting ridiculous amounts of free advertising this way which is why none of the other publishers objected. Personally, I would urge Llewelly to get a new legal advisor since he is already doing the company damage.
I have been a longstanding member of the Tarot community and have seen discussions like this crop up before... and I have yet to see a Tarotist get sued over it. Llewellyn can huff and puff all they want. But for now they will see no more of my money.
Alta
Thanks for posting that link Aster Breo.
I'll have to find it, but there was a thread here from a member wherein a spread she posted here got re-posted on Instagram without even acknowledgement. She took a lot of steps to get the copies taken down or at least credited. And that is not even legal copyright.
ETA: found it:
Who owns a tarot spread?
I'll have to find it, but there was a thread here from a member wherein a spread she posted here got re-posted on Instagram without even acknowledgement. She took a lot of steps to get the copies taken down or at least credited. And that is not even legal copyright.
ETA: found it:
Who owns a tarot spread?
AngelDancer
Neither what happened in the link posted by Aster Breo, nor the reposting of a Tarot spread diagram, is the same as posting pictures of cards in a natural environment.
Personally, I have had my copyright infringed (both as a writer and a spread creator) a few times and no, it is not nice. However, I'm way too laid back to take legal action. It's not worth the stress. That's not me saying people shouldn't, btw...
Anyhoo... I will comment no further because I have said all I wanted on common sense and fair usage of pictures of Tarot cards on social media platforms... and this discussion has now moved on from that.
Incidentally, wasn't this thread supposed to be a place to hook up on Instagram?
Long live common sense!
Peace out.
Personally, I have had my copyright infringed (both as a writer and a spread creator) a few times and no, it is not nice. However, I'm way too laid back to take legal action. It's not worth the stress. That's not me saying people shouldn't, btw...
Anyhoo... I will comment no further because I have said all I wanted on common sense and fair usage of pictures of Tarot cards on social media platforms... and this discussion has now moved on from that.
Incidentally, wasn't this thread supposed to be a place to hook up on Instagram?
Long live common sense!
Peace out.
Aster Breo
"Fair use" in this context is a legal term that has a specific meaning. In general, fair use is something like quoting a small portion of a book (with proper attribution) in a book review or academic article or similar. A key factor is the size of the except. That's probably why AT only posts pics of a few cards from a deck that's being reviewed.
Whether a picture is posted for the purpose of selling something is not relevant, legally speaking. A lot of people think it's only copyright infringement if they make a profit from their use of the material, but that's not true (in US law, at least).
Fair use might or might not apply to the Instagram example, depending on several factors.
More on the fair use exception to US copyright law: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/
Unfortunately, common sense doesn't always play a role in legal proceedings. ;-)
That's good.
To be clear, I'm NOT arguing in favor of Llewellyn suing anyone.
I've posted in this thread because there's a lot of misunderstanding out there about how copyright law works. Since this is something that can have real and serious consequences in people's lives, I think it's important to try to provide accurate info when possible. Maybe this conversation will inspire someone reading it to research copyright infringement and protect themself from a lawsuit.
