Tarot: Does it work? How?

Demon Goddess

Umbrae said:
We like heretics, slowly roasted with garlic and Chinese five-spice…LOL.

Leave the five-spice off of mine, please and add some fresh ground habanero.

Umbrae said:
Three Tarot demons arrange the cards during the cutting – whatever – who cares.

My guess is the three demons might. ;)

Umbrae said:
Why do they come to us?

they come to us, because they can't read the danged cards themselves!!! ;)

Umbrae... You so funny. hehe

All kidding aside, I'm with Umbrae, who cares who or what deals the cards?

I might believe that the three tarot demons are arranging the cards, but that doesn't make it so.

In the Bible, God tells Moses his name is I AM.

For me, it's the same answer to the Tarot question... Who is choosing the cards???

I am.

I liked the way that Cat answered; the collective subconscious.

We don't know how the power of positive thinking works, but we know it does.

Ask anyone here who got towers in their spreads right before 9/11. I don't believe that anyone who turned their cards on that day didn't get the tower in the final outcome. If you were reading AND journalling back then, check your journal.

Anyway, for me, it's the same answer to whether or not I believe in God.
How does Tarot work? Dunno, it just does. What is God: Dunno, it just is.
 

ShekinahMoon

Umbrae said:
What’s important…is after all these years…all the debunkings of Tarot as myth, the public comes to card readers…. They may have church, the scientific world, family and friends, lawyers and doctors, real estate agents, the modern world of entertainment Dr Phil, Oprah…But if they got what they were searching for there – divination would never exist.

Very well said. If divination didn't work people would not seek it out.
 

Tabby

Tarot Does it Work?

Yes, I do feel like Tarot works. I think it works with your energy and it shows you what is going on, like a valuable thermomenter. And a person takes it from there.
 

thinbuddha

memries said:
I have several questions for you too ? Do you believe in anything in the way of religion or nature or whatever ?

Have your read Carl Jung or Joseph Campbell ? Did you study Mythology at school ?

Have you ever heard of Archetypal Symbols ?

Also, I am not sure what a "peep" is ?

I am not sure where you are coming from with your questions ?

Are you playing "the Devil's Advocate" or are you sincerley interested ?

I'm not particulalry a believer in anything that the word "god" usually is associated with, but I do believe that there is magic (if not intelligence) in the mechanism (whatever it is) that drives creation.

Yes to Jo Camp, yes to Myth in school, yep to arch symbols (again, the nod to Campbell who probably got it from Jung)

peeps is web slang for "people"

Am I sincerely interested? I dunno what "sincerely interested" means. I have about a dozen decks. I've seen it work for me, and I've seen it fall flat- totally inconclusive since I'm no expert on the cards, and may be missing some things, doing the wrong spreads or asking the wrong questions. So yeah, I have a legit interest. I guess that's why I asked the question. Since you seem to see no value in the question, I have to ask: are you sincerely interested?
 

Nevada

thinbuddha said:
I have about a dozen decks. I've seen it work for me, and I've seen it fall flat- totally inconclusive since I'm no expert on the cards, and may be missing some things, doing the wrong spreads or asking the wrong questions.
Thinbuddha, I've seen it go both ways (work, and fall flat). I've become convinced over the years that the falling flat is a sign it's not the right time to read for that question, whatever it is. It's like predicting weather. There may be times when things are in such a state of rapid change or under so many converging influences that a reading is impossible. Perhaps at times the universe simply tires of us asking. Perhaps at others the answer is not for human knowledge.

Nevada
 

sharpchick

thinbuddha said:
I've seen it work for me, and I've seen it fall flat-

The times when it's "fallen flat" for me have been the times when I've approached the reading in the wrong frame of mind, i.e., I had an answer I wanted the cards to give me, and they didn't, I wasn't truly open to listening to the cards because I had failed to clear my mind of clutter, etc.

It doesn't matter whether it's religion, tarot, runes or cracks in the sidewalk, if you fail to approach the method of exploration you've chosen in the proper frame of mind, there will be times when it falls flat.

Does tarot work? For me, it does. I don't really care how - but I do know that I very likely can't get more out of anything than I am willing to put into it.
 

memries

ThinBudda

I never implied your question did not have merit. Much of the work of Carl Jung was his personal path in his search for God. Synchronicity as he described it was part of his discovery and he gave it the name. It may have been known before but not with the label we all know now.
I believe The Tarot encapsulates archetypal symbols. We have them in dreams and we see them in art that has been handed down to us. We are really surrounded by many. Even the types of people we meet seem to reflect these symbols. It is a matter of being able to translate these symbols into everyday language and understanding them.
As you know for centuries they have been suppressed to a large degree but that does not mean they are not valid. It is an inherent ability coupled with understanding, compassion and study. Also, for myself it is a calling that I feel within to learn and know the mystical side of existence.
 

thinbuddha

my apologies to you, memries, for misunderstanding where you were comming from. I seem to have broken my own rule of getting my hackles raised.

I believe The Tarot encapsulates archetypal symbols. We have them in dreams and we see them in art that has been handed down to us. We are really surrounded by many. Even the types of people we meet seem to reflect these symbols. It is a matter of being able to translate these symbols into everyday language and understanding them.
As you know for centuries they have been suppressed to a large degree but that does not mean they are not valid


What have been suppressed, the symbols, or the cards? (both?)

This is interesting- I know that you are invoking Jung by talking about the archetypal symbols, but I'm not well versed enough in Jung to see where you are going with this. Are you making the "holographic universe" arguement that everything is so fractal-like, so holographic, that any small part of it (the universe) has all the information of the whole universe somehow imprinted in it (a sort of dna of the universe- present in every "cell". If this was true (as I have believed on some level or another for the last 15 years or so) then it would be an explanation for tarot, iching, reading cracks in tortoise shells, astrology etc.

How one would prove such a thing...... I guess it would be akin to finding the mathematical equasion that is equal to God (likely not possible.... actually didn't the mathematician Godel prove that such a thing was impossible?)

Am I reading too much into your post? In any event, this is the kind of discussion I was aiming for when I wrote the original post. I often play devils advocate (it helps me get my mind around an issue)- and you will probably see me play devils advocate in the future- but this time, I really am just asking- what makes this thing work? Are we fooling ourselves, or is there really something, er..... (paranormal/psychic/occult/etc) going on here?

-tb
 

Zephyros

A fascinating discussion!!!

I must agree with the Umbrae-ic point of view. Not that I'm judging the scientific point of view, only saying that I have enough humility to understand up to what point I can take it. Honestly I don't know why Tarot works, or really, if it does at all. Perhaps the cards really can fit all situations and all this is just wishful thinking.

However, questions are meant to be asked, and how Tarot works is a good one. There may be many answers or only one, but I doubt we will find any really conclusive answer. There was a time when I used to ask myself how and why it worked, while at other times, after not-so-successful reading, why it doesn't work. Perhaps I'm making a mistake in not asking still, but in the end, it does work for me, and I don't think I have to be a mechanical engineer to drive a car...:) I don't need to know all the processes that make the car go, it just does. I'm exagerating, of course, but so it is:)
 

jmd

Though I do not share thinbuddha's nor Lyric's quote of Whyte's view - basically a reductionist physicalist view of the world - a world that I consider essentially spiritual, the question posed is, contra my friend Umbrae, in my view an important one: How does Tarot work?

Of course, for someone who has a non-spiritual view of the world, any description taking as a foundation a spiritual underpinning will be viewed as flawed. Similarly, a flat-earther will likewise view any 'evidence' that the Earth is (roughly) spherical as essentially flawed.

When I go shopping, I swipe a mere bit of plastic with a magnetic strip on the back, and I can walk out with goods from any shop. Unfortunately, when I later check my bank balance, it seems to have taken a slump. Sometimes, I even type things on my keyboard, and Umbrae or Jeannette (I presume) somewhat respond to these pixels of light and send me a (nother) deck... unfortunately again this seems to cause a dip in my bank balance!

The point is that just because Tarot is 'expressed' or 'manifests' as pigment on cardboard or parchment (or plastic) does not mean that it is mere pigment on parchment - and certainly not random meaningless ink-imprints.

How does it work?

Having an essentially spiritual view of the world, I tend to see things as possibly far more interconnected in meaningful ways than some of my physicalist companions.

'Beyond' the obvious scenes are many forces at work, each, in essence, spiritual. That specific cards emerge at specific instances reflects, in my own personal view, meaningful indications.

How open and ready we each are to render this form of communication across to another person has an importance that Umbrae highlights over and over. In a reading, it is not the understanding of how it works that is important, but what one does (or say) - similarly, in entering the house, it is not my understanding of the workings of electricity that will matter, but on the ability to turn on the lights (and this computer!).

So on which 'camp' do I stand? certainly not on the one that seeks to reduce the spiritual to mere Jungian 'psychological pressures', to physical explanations, to dispositions to culturally explain - though these too may be of import. Rather, and despite the gap of understanding that arises in possibly whichever view we may have, a view of the world as essentially spiritual hints me to view the workings of a reading in essentially spiritual ways.