Early Cartomancy in Germany

Philippe

Thanks for explaining, Huck - that was interesting! I am grateful that you took the time. So instructive! I shall lurk in the wings, and jump in whenever I can help :) I am fascinated by history. Although of course, Philippe can translate quite well for you. But I shall do what I can, and learn along the way :)

Well Padma, I could provided that my english is less defective. I rely on (old) school learnings and can't translate as stylishly as you do
 

Philippe

Worldcat is totally negative about an author Schwabergen.

Google knows this passage:
https://books.google.de/books?id=yh...kDnoQ6AEIMDAD#v=onepage&q=schwabergen&f=false

schw-01.jpg

schw-02.jpg


... which mentions a "Jean Meibomius" as a friend and the publication location Helmstadt (? = Helmstedt) and the year 1672. The title of the book is not given.

Helmstedt had a university then, likely with a good name. In Helmstedt was active Henricus Maibomius, otherwise Johann Heinrich Maibom (Johann = Jean in French).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Meibom_(Mediziner)

worldcat has for "Helmstedt 1672" 2 published works, both from Maibom
http://worldcat.org/identities/nc-helmstedt 1672/

The university Helmstedt was then (? at least till 1650) known as a hardliner in the question of protestant witch persecution. Perhaps the addressed text had something to do with it?

"Schwabenden" leads to nothing, as far I can see this. Perhaps a result of a name transformation from German to Latin. Close names in Helmstedt are Schraderus or Schrader or Schwabe. Perhaps the text existed only as a manuscript?

Generally the word cartomancy didn't exist in this time.

The problem with this quote Huck is the book it comes from, and more precisely its author Frédéric de la Grange pseudonym of Paul Christian or Jean-Baptiste Pitois, a very imaginative graphomaniac, as you certainly already know, and someone who can't always be trusted.
 

kwaw

I think I am probably reading this wrong. Does this mention something about women in Africa divining with cards?

It is from a German book on Africa, 1668:

books


Many women go on to other arts, and feed on woolspinning and cards (fortune-telling). The remaining laze. Most are of humble condition and the richest have but a few cattle. They are under the dominion of Arabs who live in the Libischen wastelands.

Umbständliche und eigentliche Beschreibung von Afrika, Anno 1668
By Olfert Dapper
 

Huck

I think I am probably reading this wrong. Does this mention something about women in Africa divining with cards?

It is from a German book on Africa, 1668:

books


Many women go on to other arts, and feed on woolspinning and cards (fortune-telling). The remaining laze. Most are of humble condition and the richest have but a few cattle. They are under the dominion of Arabs who live in the Libischen wastelands.

Umbständliche und eigentliche Beschreibung von Afrika, Anno 1668
By Olfert Dapper

The title sounds like 17th century, the text itself doesn't sound like German from 17th century ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfert_Dapper
Olfert Dapper wrote in Dutch, probably. Perhaps one should search for the original.
 

kwaw

The title sounds like 17th century, the text itself doesn't sound like German from 17th century ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfert_Dapper
Olfert Dapper wrote in Dutch, probably. Perhaps one should search for the original.

Yes, it is a modern reprint of a German translation -- the (Fortune-telling) is probably an erroneous interpolation. I have searched in the original, and can't find it using what terms I can think of:

https://archive.org/details/gri_33125009359999

I haven't been able to find the text in the original the German is a translation of, but I suspect the mention of cards in proximity to wool spinning is a reference to wool pulling cards, a spinners tool for pulling threads to spin with, and not to playing cards at all (let alone ones used for divination).
 

Teheuti

I suspect the mention of cards in proximity to wool spinning is a reference to wool pulling cards, a spinners tool for pulling threads to spin with, and not to playing cards at all (let alone ones used for divination).
I agree. Several years ago there was another early case of a miss-translation of wool carding as playing cards.
 

Ross G Caldwell

There it is, paragraph spanning pp. 301-302. It looks like wool-spinning terminology.

"wol te spinnen en kaerten"
 

Ross G Caldwell

There it is, paragraph spanning pp. 301-302. It looks like wool-spinning terminology.

"wol te spinnen en kaerten"
 

Huck

I think, negative ...

od-01.jpg


od-02.jpg


This "kaerten" (which could mean playing cards in Dutch) likely means a tool used in wool (wol means wool) production. We had the same error once in the discussion of the possibly very early Albigensian cards, which proved then to have been also the same misleading wool tool. No word about divination in this text.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carding

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Added:
:) ... I didn't read your posts, Ross