Question about Jupiter in Virgo.

laurence

Hi all!

My knowledge in astrology is rather poor.
My natal jupiter is in Virgo and Jupiter will go to Virgo in August.
Jupiter is expansion and as far as I know Virgo is about practicality.
My Jupiter in Virgo is in my 3rd house so I guess that during this time I will have more opportunities to share knowledge and ideas.

But I have also Saturn in my 3rd house and I think those 2 planets are not really similar (Saturn is restriction and jupiter is expansion) so will Saturn affect the impact of Jupiter?

If you want to check, my dob is:

12th october 1980 at 00:15 AM(quarter past midnight) in Paris 13th district (France).

If anyone could shed some light on this particular aspect, I would be grateful.

Thanks.
 

Minderwiz

Jupiter

Thanks for including your natal details. laurence.

Jupiter means rather more than expansion, though it could be argued a lot of it's more specific meanings stem from this characteristic. Robert Schmidt argues that it's original meanings stemmed from the processes of 'confirming' and 'stabilising'. These two processes explain it's ling to the law and to organised religions (state sanctioned religions). In the second century CE, the Astrologer Vettius Valens linked it to bearing children, love, desire and alliances of all kinds. He also linked it to the desire for higher and more esoteric knowledge - Gnosis - through a direct and experiential process with one's highest self. Jupiter is the planet of higher education and self development (and you can see here a link to the modern meaning of expansion).

He also connected Jupiter to the friendships of men who had some sort of greatness, through possibly wealth or business. That link to business has also remained to the present day. The Jupiter/Saturn cycle is often related to business. Jupiter also is connected to the way we manage our own property and wealth but also the assets that are held in trust. So again there's a business connection to investment and the management of investments. But this can also be extended to the management of family affairs.

Jupiter is seen as a benefic planet, it brings feelings of joy and satisfaction, often with material things but also with family and children and it brings the energy to lead and to do the right thing. It also allows us to keep a sense of proportion in judgement, faith and trust.

So a connection with material well being, freedom, the finer things in life, higher education, business and doing well are all connected to Jupiter.

In your case, using Whole Sign Houses, Jupiter is in your second house of income and material possessions. So it's in one of the houses that it naturally is linked to.

Jupiter also rules your natal fifth house - children, leisure and hobby activities, romance and short term relationships. And Jupiter also rules your eighth House; inheritances, partner's money

However that is partially offset by Jupiter being in Virgo, the sign of its Detriment. I say partially, because Jupiter is otherwise well positioned. It is fast, it is direct and it is also oriental (it rises before the Sun) and it is not badly affected by any of the malefics.

That brings us to Saturn. I actually have Jupiter in your Second (the second sign from your Leo Ascendant, counting Leo as the first sign. Saturn is in Libra. This is the sign of its exaltation but you have a night chart and Saturn does not function very well in night charts. That being said. it to is fast, direct and oriental. Jupiter will at some point after you were born catch up Saturn (though it will have to have changed signs to do it.) That point can be viewed in a number of ways. Modern Astrologers would most likely consider it through Secondary Progressions, that treats a days motion as being equivalent to a year in your life. The don't usually bother with Jupiter and Saturn simply because they move slowly it would be somewhere around the age of 80. So there's nothing to really fear there.

Jupiter rentering Virgo will conjoin your natal Venus first, as it lies at 8 degrees. but it will be some time before Jupiter reaches its natal position. in the meantime it will sextile natal Moon and Mercury before it achieves its Return 25th August 2016 at 14:37. The transit of Virgo should be generally positive but look out for other planets aspecting transiting Jupiter in real time' as they will begin to aspect natal Jupiter and natal Venus plus the sextiles to Mercury and the Moon and then ultimately Mars.

There are a whole battery of other technques you can use to assess the Virgo year.

If you have children you might watch out to see if the aspects of Jupiter show up for them. Modern Astrology sees the chart as being exclusively you but the traditional view is that it's you and those other people related to you in some way. So as Jupiter rules your fifth, it could indicate events relating to children. Or it could relate to your father's or your family's money, as the fifth is the second from the fourth, the father's house and the family's house. in the widest sense of family.

Similarly, Jupiter's four aspects could show up in events affecting your home and family, (ruled by Mars), your career and siblings (ruled by Venus) travel (ruled by Mars) and things that go wrong. In all cases the effects of Jupiter should be at least mildly benefic. So if something is going wrong during the year, then the sextile to the Moon may lead to some improvment (assuming no real time problems with transiting Jupiter).

Edited to add:

Remember that I have kept to Jupiter here. There are other planets which will be transiting your chart and there effects may or may not outweigh that of Jupiter. So a full consideration of Jupiter's year in Virgo would require that they too are examined, as it the solar return's for the years that cover the period, plus any other system of forecasting that you fancy.
 

Barleywine

By way of comparison (but certainly not contradiction), permit me a "modern" take on this. A modern astrologer using Placidus houses might say that Jupiter in the 3rd house would inspire growth in the affairs of the "lower mind" - the realm of practical skills and talents. In pragmatic, "scientific" Virgo (by moden reckoning it wouldn't be in detriment, although it still wouldn't be comfortable in the sign of Mercury's rulership), this might be a good time to undertake some kind of technical or technological training. Saturn being there as well would add weight to this objective.
 

Minderwiz

Yes, a Modern Astrologer would almost certainly use Placidus houses without thinking, thus putting Jupiter in the third. I wanted to give an alternative take on that by using Whole Sign Houses but it is just that, an alternative take (though I'm increasingly impressed with the results from WSH).

The modern view is that the chart reflects the mind and your own perceptions. Thus the fourth house is not objectively your father or your family but rather your perceptions of them.

The third house has changed emphasis. Siblings are no longer the number one meaning, but education and short journeys, together with communications get the main billing. That's because Western society is more atomistic and less family (in the original sense of the word) oriented. We can't ignore social change entirely, so a third house reading would emphasise growth or expansion in the spheres of communications, and short distance travel (either physical or mental). As Barleywine says that doesn't actually contradict Valens, who saw Jupiter linked to our need to grow and understand our higher self. It's just that Valens' other meanings have receded into the background for a modern reading. Yet they still exist and I don't think you'll find a Modern Astrologer who would deny them.

Modern Astrology also allows the use of out of sign aspects and conjunctions. Although these are actually oxymorons, the reasoning behind it lies in the idea of an 'orb' where as a planet gets closer to another, so the two begin to blend their meanings. From a traditional perspective each sign is a domicile or house or dwelling place. So Jupiter in Virgo is seen as more a 'neighbour' of Saturn in Libra. The two are separated by the 'walls' of the dwelling place. If they see each other at all it's a glimpse over the garden fence LOL, or Jupiter hearing Saturn playing his music too loud and disturbing his TV programme. That proximity does have an effect. Hellenistic Astrologers would have taken note of the forthcoming conjunction once it got below 3 degrees (Saturn's music is now very loud and really disturbing Jupiter's Telly watching).

Modern Virgo seems to be related to an over obsessive concern for detail, to the exclusion of the 'big picture' which is another reason why Jupiter isn't particularly happy there. I don't really see it as being 'scientific' or 'technology' related but more related to something like accounting (a good Mercury activity) or Office Management, or filing or cataloging systems.

Traditional Virgo would emphasise its characteristics as an Earth sign (good at practical things, down to earth, good at routine activities) and as a Mutable Sign (prone to change direction or have two distinct phases to activity - things may have to happen twice before you learn the lesssons or ge the idea). The two views of Virgo are by no means exclusive.

So using Placidus, it might be a time to do a course in accounts or calalogue your CD collection.

Which it actually is likely to depend on what's going on in your life at the time. Again that may require you to consider a solar return chart or some other predictive method.
 

Vellata

This is exciting! My Jupiter is also in Virgo and I'm looking forward to it's return and start of the new cycle. There's not much information available on this specific return, however based on Celeste Teal's works, the way of interpreting it is similar to other planetary returns, though keeping Jupiter's own symbolism in mind. She also mentions, that around the time of Jupiter return, people often change lifestyle. Well - we'll wait and see! Still some month to go.
 

laurence

Thanks for including your natal details. laurence.

Jupiter means rather more than expansion, though it could be argued a lot of it's more specific meanings stem from this characteristic. Robert Schmidt argues that it's original meanings stemmed from the processes of 'confirming' and 'stabilising'. These two processes explain it's ling to the law and to organised religions (state sanctioned religions). In the second century CE, the Astrologer Vettius Valens linked it to bearing children, love, desire and alliances of all kinds. He also linked it to the desire for higher and more esoteric knowledge - Gnosis - through a direct and experiential process with one's highest self. Jupiter is the planet of higher education and self development (and you can see here a link to the modern meaning of expansion).
Ok I get It. That's why the keyword for Jupiter is expansion.
He also connected Jupiter to the friendships of men who had some sort of greatness, through possibly wealth or business. That link to business has also remained to the present day. The Jupiter/Saturn cycle is often related to business. Jupiter also is connected to the way we manage our own property and wealth but also the assets that are held in trust. So again there's a business connection to investment and the management of investments. But this can also be extended to the management of family affairs.
I also see the link to what I've learnt during my research about It: Jupiter in a chart can reveals the enthusiasm of someone or shows one's way to welcome new experiences and develop one's relationships.
In your case, using Whole Sign Houses, Jupiter is in your second house of income and material possessions. So it's in one of the houses that it naturally is linked to.
I'm getting so confused because depending on the system we use, we obtain a very different interpretation so which one is the right one?
Jupiter is in my 3rd house=environment, sibblings, communication, small travels.
It is completely different if It's in the 2nd house = income and ressources.
Jupiter also rules your natal fifth house - children, leisure and hobby activities, romance and short term relationships. And Jupiter also rules your eighth House; inheritances, partner's money.

However that is partially offset by Jupiter being in Virgo, the sign of its Detriment. I say partially, because Jupiter is otherwise well positioned. It is fast, it is direct and it is also oriental (it rises before the Sun) and it is not badly affected by any of the malefics.
In my chart, my 3rd house is ruled by virgo. So jupiter in virgo return should be relevant?
Even if Jupiter is in Virgo (sign of its detriments).
Jupiter rentering Virgo will conjoin your natal Venus first, as it lies at 8 degrees. but it will be some time before Jupiter reaches its natal position. in the meantime it will sextile natal Moon and Mercury before it achieves its Return 25th August 2016 at 14:37. The transit of Virgo should be generally positive but look out for other planets aspecting transiting Jupiter in real time' as they will begin to aspect natal Jupiter and natal Venus plus the sextiles to Mercury and the Moon and then ultimately Mars.

There are a whole battery of other technques you can use to assess the Virgo year.
Ok, thanks!

If you have children you might watch out to see if the aspects of Jupiter show up for them. Modern Astrology sees the chart as being exclusively you but the traditional view is that it's you and those other people related to you in some way. So as Jupiter rules your fifth, it could indicate events relating to children. Or it could relate to your father's or your family's money, as the fifth is the second from the fourth, the father's house and the family's house. in the widest sense of family.
I do not have children.
During the last Jupiter in virgo return so in 2003/2004, my dad got cancer and passed away in 2005. In 2004 I was travelling abroad to work and It was not pleasant at all but I gained knowledge.
Similarly, Jupiter's four aspects could show up in events affecting your home and family, (ruled by Mars), your career and siblings (ruled by Venus) travel (ruled by Mars) and things that go wrong. In all cases the effects of Jupiter should be at least mildly benefic. So if something is going wrong during the year, then the sextile to the Moon may lead to some improvment (assuming no real time problems with transiting Jupiter).
Ok, thanks for this information as It can be very helpful for what I want to undertake over the next year.

Remember that I have kept to Jupiter here. There are other planets which will be transiting your chart and there effects may or may not outweigh that of Jupiter. So a full consideration of Jupiter's year in Virgo would require that they too are examined, as it the solar return's for the years that cover the period, plus any other system of forecasting that you fancy.

Ok, I understand what you mean. It's not only one aspect that I need to look at. I was just thinking that It can be relevant as It's only every 12 years.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my post. Your knowledge is priceless.
 

laurence

By way of comparison (but certainly not contradiction), permit me a "modern" take on this. A modern astrologer using Placidus houses might say that Jupiter in the 3rd house would inspire growth in the affairs of the "lower mind" - the realm of practical skills and talents. In pragmatic, "scientific" Virgo (by moden reckoning it wouldn't be in detriment, although it still wouldn't be comfortable in the sign of Mercury's rulership), this might be a good time to undertake some kind of technical or technological training. Saturn being there as well would add weight to this objective.

I think my researches were based on Placidius, althought I was not aware of It.
Your description, Barleywine, seems to fit with what I learnt.
A good time to start a practical training (based on practice).
Do you mean that saturn would help or bother me here?

Thank you very much.
 

Barleywine

I think my researches were based on Placidius, althought I was not aware of It.
Your description, Barleywine, seems to fit with what I learnt.
A good time to start a practical training (based on practice).
Do you mean that saturn would help or bother me here?

Thank you very much.

I wasn't clear on whether it's transitting Saturn or natal Saturn, and I didn't run the chart. If it's natal Saturn, you would already be serious-minded in practical matters, and Jupiter could be a motivator (along with whatever else is transitting around your chart that might have a tie-in to Saturn or the 3rd House ruler). If it's transitting Saturn and the two are linked by conjunction, then it might be a drag on your motivation; if it's just "there," I think I would treat it as an independent factor in its own right, another "color" to overlay on the house meaning.
 

Minderwiz

I'm getting so confused because depending on the system we use, we obtain a very different interpretation so which one is the right one?
Jupiter is in my 3rd house=environment, sibblings, communication, small travels.
It is completely different if It's in the 2nd house = income and ressources.

In my chart, my 3rd house is ruled by virgo. So jupiter in virgo return should be relevant?

Neither of them are 'right' they are two different ways of looking at the chart. Whole Sign Houses is the original system of house division and it's geared to topocentric issues (that is issues relating to areas of your life.) Quadrant house systems (of which Placidus is one) were originally used to calculate the length of life, an activity which evolved into making predictions using primary and later secondary progressions. Such house systems are central to Astrology and since the Middle Ages have been used for both topics and prediction. In one way that saves two different charts but using quadrant houses for topics can produce difficulties when there are intercepted signs or signs that are on the cusp of more than one house. Such difficulties are by no means insuperable but they can be annoying.


laurence said:
I do not have children.
During the last Jupiter in virgo return so in 2003/2004, my dad got cancer and passed away in 2005. In 2004 I was travelling abroad to work and It was not pleasant at all but I gained knowledge.

Your last Jupiter Return chart shows Jupiter in the ninth house of Travel. It is separating from combustion, though still not clear, you didn't see what was happening. Between Jupiter and the Sun was Mars, one degree away from the Sun. Mars rules your natal fourth house of your father and in the return chart the Sun ruled the eighth house of death. That was August 2004. I don't know whether you were still travelling at that time but the symbolism is quite strong. That's why I said that we have to look at other factors besides just Jupiter. What was happening to Mars was also significant for that year. Even if you were not travelling in the literal sense, if you still gained knowledge then the ninth retains a significance.

Your next return chart might be something that you want to consider before reaching a final conclusion on how the year will go.


laurence said:
Ok, I understand what you mean. It's not only one aspect that I need to look at. I was just thinking that It can be relevant as It's only every 12 years.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my post. Your knowledge is priceless.

Jupiter returns are important, as are other returns. But Jupiter and Saturn Returns mark the key passages of life. My point was that the other planets don't go away for twelve months, they are still creating aspects, not only to natal Jupiter but also to the other planets. That sadly was the case in August 2004. To have a better view of what might happen you might want to consider the Return chart for 2016.
 

Minderwiz

I wasn't clear on whether it's transitting Saturn or natal Saturn, and I didn't run the chart. If it's natal Saturn, you would already be serious-minded in practical matters, and Jupiter could be a motivator (along with whatever else is transitting around your chart that might have a tie-in to Saturn or the 3rd House ruler). If it's transitting Saturn and the two are linked by conjunction, then it might be a drag on your motivation; if it's just "there," I think I would treat it as an independent factor in its own right, another "color" to overlay on the house meaning.

Laurence's natal Saturn is in Libra, rather than Virgo which is why I was careful about the conjunction and why I had them in separate houses. Saturn is definitely third house though, whether we use quadrant houses or whole sign houses. If Equal Houses were used measured from the degree of the Ascendant, both Jupiter and Saturn are in the second house.