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Bernice  Bernice is offline
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Quote:
20 (22) Atu of the Pierpoint-Morgan-Bergamo-Tarrocci Deck (Dal Negro Version)
Can we have a link for scans of this deck that you are using?
The deck name you give is confusing......... an internet search reveals zilch. Or perhaps it is more commonly known as just one of the above names?

Here's some more info. for other searchers;
http://www.tarothermit.com/decks.htm


Maybe this is the deck:
http://******************.com/photos/...isconti_Sporza


Ah! Found the Dal Negro One - but no scans;
http://www.houseoftarot.com/Visconti...i_by_Dal_Negro



And finally here, the full deck name with an explanation:
Quote:
Extract:
"Several European publishers have reproduced the Pierpont-Morgan Bergamo Visconti Sforza deck, originally commissioned by the Duke of Milan in the 1450s. The most affordable is the shimmering gold deck published by Lo Scarabeo and distributed in the U.S. by Llewellyn. There are two editions - a stand-alone deck published in 2000, and a book-deck set produced in 2002. These decks have slight differences which I'll discuss below."

http://www.ata-tarot.com/reflections...s-purchase.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And it's here at Alida for purchase:

Art./Item: dn001
Descrizione/Description: Tarocchi dei Visconti

Autore/Author: B. Bembo e A. Cicognara
Edizione/Publisher: Dal Negro

Numero Carte/Number of cards: 78
Istruzioni: italiano
Instructions: italian

Tiratura: non limitata.
Limited Edition: without edition number.

Dimensioni/Dimensions: cm. 17,5 x 9

Prezzo/Price: . 49.50


Bee.
Top   #81
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The SECOND Pair


CONJUNCTIO --------- (2-1-1-2) ------- Meeting, Harmony ----------------------- "the LOVERS"
( A Man and a Woman meeting and greeting - above them a large winged Angel with bandaged ( bound ) eyes standing on a column holding a VERY large Arrow in his left hand and lets assume a Bow in his right... - if you read the profiling descriptions of the 16 you will find that CONJUNCTIO is about an encounter under lucky circumstances - what could be more lucky than to meet your Love - and this character of the 16 was considered a good Omen for Marriage - if it occurred in Divination...
The Angel by the way is not Amor ( as you may assume ) he is there because on the most high levels of reading the Liber Mundi or the Cards this Atu is about GOD OPENING YOUR CHEST - which can be a distracting harmful bloody Mess... )

CARCER -------------- (1-2-2-1) ------- Prison ----------------------------------- "the TOWER"
((First the TOWER is not present ( and here I owe you an apology on my part because Ive said I told you already WHY that is the case - I was wrong - I didnt - Ive been through the whole Thread 2 times - and it wasnt there - I must have hit the wrong button while posting... sorry... but Ill make it up to you this time... )
The TOWER and the DEVIL can not be found anywhere between those many Visconti-Sforza cards because they are a kind of keys to the upper levels of this high rising Cathedral of Wisdom - I mean what I say - the T is a BUILDING - and the ATU live there - they inhibit it - they roam in certain ways - and whenever they enter a new room on a new level this room serves as a library with special fields of expertise - and if you stay long enough - here in the "Fun and Game Section - our new home" you will SEE how this works - I promise...
Those Cards are Keys and they are not there because the Teachers took them with them when they left...
For the TOWER and its depiction - if you had read the right books about the origin of the pictures on the Atu and their meaning you would know that the depiction of the TOWER was done by a mistake due to a miss-translation...
In this early version of T it should have been done similar to the TOWER of the The Minchiate Etruria Trumps...
There it is shown what LOVE ( or Marriage ) can become - the Woman tries to get out and the hand of her Husband tries to drag her back into the burning House - the Fire here of cause shows the rage that has harmed the relationship...
The text belonging to this Character of the 16 speaks about despair and isolation from the world - slavery is mentioned...
This happens in a dark place with high walls - and it is meant as transitional punishment that will come to a soon end...))

C
Top   #82
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Card Scans


Back in post #25, C said this was the deck he refers to:
http://www.a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02046/d02046.htm
You have to click each scan individually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernice
Can we have a link for scans of this deck that you are using?
The deck name you give is confusing......... an internet search reveals zilch. Or perhaps it is more commonly known as just one of the above names?
http://www.tarot.org.il/Minchiate%20Etruria/
To see the Tower card
Top   #83
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The THIRD Pair


FORTUNA MAJOR ----- (2-2-1-1) ------- Great Luck, Long Term ------------------- "(the) JUSTICE"
(( The above very extended posts concerning 2 Pairs of the 16 were given merely as an example of what you may see when you are looking with new eyes - in the following posts concerning the remaining Pairs Ill be shorter because I know you are sometimes VERY impatient and have a lot of other Stuff to do...
The FORTUNA MAJOR Character is often described as a majestic woman of strong will and power - the color green is very important to her and she is smiling foremost on Soldiers - in Divination this Sign is sometimes interpreted as an arriving King who comes to stay for the Best...
A tall grown crowned woman with a sword and scales is depicted - she guards a very sublime Porte ( what this means we will talk about maybe in a year or so... ) - and above her a young geared up Knight on his well dressed horse with his sword in the right hand and no helmet storms towards the Sun in the right ( or East )... ))

FORTUNA MINOR ----- (1-1-2-2) ------ Small Luck, Temporary ------------------ "the WHEEL of FORTUNE"
(( The same woman ( same silver pattern on the dress ) but now with bound eyes and wings is playfully turning the WHEEL with 3 young men ( perhabs the same age as the Knight and resembling him in hairstyle and facial features - but dressed up as princes with donkeys ears telling you their fate ( in Latin ) - from left to right - I will reign / I reign / I have reigned - and the poor old tattered man under the WHEEL crawls from the right to the left ( sunset ) telling you that he has got no reign at all...
When this sign comes up in divination its often interpreted as the heat in the middle of the day which in oriental regions is hard to stand - but it will soon be over - sunset will surely come...
AND the WHEEL has 6 SPOKES - why that is the ONLY way to picture the WHEEL - MUCH later...
BUT showing a WHEEL with more Spokes was a wonderful easy way to spoil the cards - by Intention or merely NOT KNOWING - I talked about that in my very first post on this Thread... ))

C
Top   #84
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Thank you for the scan links cardlady22. Now we have three card painters for this theory


Bee.
Top   #85
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Thank you for your explanations of the Pairs "C". This is helping many appreciate your theory/process.

This may be jumping the gun a little, but i wonder if there might also be some connection between the 16 court cards and the Geomantic figures in your theory?

Thanks!!!

CED
Top   #86
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The FOURTH Pair


ACQUISITIO ----------- (2-1-2-1) -------- Gain, Income ---------------------- "the ( so called ) MAGICIAN"
(( Now - THATS a good one - at the first glance you can see that its all about MONEY - the Man depicted here is wearing VERY expensive clothes - from Head to Toe - Purple and Fur and Marocain Leather - and hes sitting on a well built an ornamented chest - he is what you would call LOADED if you were to meet him...
Whats his profession ? Hes a Merchant who knows the World and in the chest are his most precious possessions...
Thats whats on the card and in the profile for this Fig. of the 16 in divination...
Wealth as a heavenly Blessing - but also its about listening to GOD - asking him for the RIGHT WAY - begging for guidance - and on the most high Levels of the T its about opening THE DOOR...
On his Table is a pile of stacked up Silver from which he takes a piece with his right hand - in his left hand hes holding a long slim stick - similar to a conductor's baton - normally he uses it to count the Silver but now he uses it to show us the 2 pieces of an IMAGINARY SPHERE...
(You may remember the VISION of the NEW JERUSALEM on the WORLD Card and its round appearance - but here its about the Citizens of this still imaginary City )...

I say IMAGINARY SPHERE because its not painted yet - its only a scratch - and being a Painter myself I can tell you that such things as forgetting to paint a Detail in the lightened up Middle-ground of a painting wouldnt occur...
And there is no such thing on the other Atu as a forgotten scratch - ONLY HERE - right under your eyes - hiding in plain sight...
Maybe you know about this Greek version of an old Story about the first try of the GODs when they made MAN - or I should better say WO/MAN - because those first Creation was ROUND like a Sphere and Everyone had BOTH Genders in itself - one on the Front and the other on the Back - and they were so powerful that even the GODs became afraid of them - and so They were thinking of a way to defeat Them - the GODs succeeded but cutting the Members of this Creation right through in the Middle - so that they were occupied their whole Life searching for their missing Half...

The T is about finding that Half of yourself... and become ONE again...
The Knife is just there to remind you what has happened...

If you know all that you could consider him being a Magician - but it can not be seen with unaware eyes... ))





AMISSIO --------------- (1-2-1-2) -------- Total Loss, Deprivation ------------ "the FOOL"
(( I think Lillie was the one who mentioned this special Pair as being drawn by the same Artist - She is naturally right about that because in THIS special Deck the Connection between the 2 Cards was chosen to be made by personal resemblance of facial features - the 2 had to look like Brothers - but in other Decks other Choices were made...
Here some kind of barefooted KING of Fools is depicted with HIS baton/scepter - all in faded Rags wearing a Crown of feathers...
He has made his own Experiences and Journeys - mostly by being pushed around...
He seems to be mentally deranged - you can tell this by his weary absent look and by that (and HOW ) hes wearing ( only ) his loincloth...
And as if that wasnt enough he has an endemic goiter - because in the profile of the Fig. of the 16 depicted here it says that he is ugly and suffers from some bodily deformation...
He has lost EVERYTHING... ))

C
Top   #87
"C"  "C" is offline
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"C" 
Half


As by now Ive come up with the first half of the requested Master List of the correspondences between the 16 and the 20 (22) I thought this might be a good time to keep up with your posts since weve been moved here...
Since I try to keep up a readable order in this Thread without loosing touch Ill answer now to your queries as useful and possible...
After that Ill be back with posting the second Half of the 8 Pairs...

C
Top   #88
"C"  "C" is offline
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"C" 
to Moonbow... once more...


I think that your question should be answered by now - if not - PLEASE let me know...

C
Top   #89
"C"  "C" is offline
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to cardlady22...


...First let me thank You for helping me out with Bernice and her request...

Second - ALL your Findings are correct - although some are missing You will find them in the List of RexMalaki or the coming up Master List of the 8 Pairs with additional "evidence"...

Third on your request for a "short" Outline of this "Course"...
Here I must ask You not to take what I have to say about this right NOW the wrong way - I really try NOT to be rude on you...

Ive been through all my posts again and I think Ive already given that "short" Outline - but maybe you dont believe me when I say to You - as to Bernice - T is COMPLETELY ALIEN to you - this was NOT meant as an Offense - and its NOT your Fault...
It was meant TO BE that way - until NOW...

Im still trying to tell you something about the Language T uses - The 16 are only somekind of VOCABULARY and the FIRST LAYER of meaning of the 20 (22)...
The next Step might be to find out how and WHY this 16- or 8 folded System ( if you think of the 16 as 8 PAIRS ) was manipulated to become an 18- or 9 folded System ( if you think of the 18 as 9 PAIRS ) which could carry a NEW Message...
If You remember I gave a Hint on that in my Text about the 18 STARS above THE NEW JERUSALEM on the WORLD Card...
Naturally we will than have to find out what this Message is about...
After that we should be able to identify the cards NOT IN USE at THIS Stage of Development...
Then we can have a NEW Look on them to find out WHAT they are about at THIS Stage - and we might find out that it is NOT about TELLING us something by MEANING - it is about SHOWING us something...
NOW we might be able to get a Clue on the Landscape which we SAW on the WORLD Card and we may get a Glimpse of the CITIZENS of NEW JERUSALEM and their SOCIAL STRUCTURE and we may be able to find a BLUEPRINT for that CATHEDRAL OF WISDOM which is still waiting to be built...
AND ( THIS will be a GREAT DAY ) we will know the RIGHT Place to build it...
AND we will be able to build it with our own Hands - using the Cards as BRICKS...

...You see this is still only BEGINNING to understand HOW T works...
...you must think of T as beeing one of this cute little Russian nested Dolls -
Matryoshka Dolls are stacked one into the other and you only get to know them one by one...

I hope that I have answered Your Question at least a little bit - please be patient - its good to have You here...

C
Top   #90

 




 


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