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Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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You did get cold... Izi? Didn't you? Probably right there at the base of your spine...? Where the secret door (the holy of holies!) to your soul wasn't maintained due to "The TRADITION"...? And now it feels like a hole with verrry cold ice in it - already filled up to the shivering brim - and not sooo sparkling anymore I suppose - Izi?? This is the door you should have (re)garded concerning all terrors the most - just in case a LIGHTning COULD strike somehow! Shame. Why? I thought YOU were a BIG gal with YOUR trained hon fun buns gladly spread out there in the open doing TA - and all the way gaped to the max for pure joy and some more ((like AC advised The SCARLET WOMAN in secrecy and totally understandably (!) when he introduced her to PAN)) - no? My bad I suppose - or yours? Could that be... ?

Adrian

P.S. I thought about cheering you up a bit Izi in this precarious situation - well - you & ME - both - because this IS hard for ME too. Now don't laugh - please...

...or maybe DO because that's what THIS is about too.

I did watch a totally great Aussie comedy lately that I thought to be all the more fitting because this comes from "down under" AND has a LOT of WHEELS in it.

It's about FAMILY and all that stuff that comes with it. The good - the bad - and: the ugly.

In that family story you could think of me as the adopted bird - although I'm totally male NOW - but everyone during his first 4 days around here again can't escape this experience of bee-ing a WOMAN too (kind of - considering a bunch of cells going through that fast paced drama a person - but still!) and you could choose any role model you like (and change that decision even from time to time anyway YOU wish).

In fact you could think of me as the brother from another MOTHER that you probably never would have expected to have here - in this life!

A quote from IMDb about it:
>> The story of two families living at opposite ends of the freeway. <<

You may recognize this part. I DO!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2401525/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

http://putlocker.is/watch-upper-midd...putlocker.html

P.P.S. This time I come bearing glad tidings Izi!
Maybe now all can be good! I found you a DEVIL topic right here in the neighborhood and you could go there and see if you like it - I could be posting there too because I like some of the thoughts of the OP there and some of Nick Swift's work too (with exceptions of course!) that was brought up there recently:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=245472

P.P.P.s. So you're not "game" Izi? Or maybe you are? Like in PREY? You know the ONE The DEVIL (whom you seem to be so interested in so much?) is cooking in his cauldron on the "Cary Sheet" for transmutation? Sad. Really? I was SO looking forward to an informed recapitulation from the syllabus concerning the lingering aftertaste... of the "Cauda (Draconis)". Like much? Peace out >

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...term=Peace+Out

> here you should go to post numero 3: "A wannabee hippie saying good bye."

> and "click" the "speaker" to "really" hear (me?!) say it...

Somewhat close to our meet&greet here is also the last post down under (7) - and because it is so telling I'll quote it all the way:

>> Goodbye. Often a source of confusion among whites from different parts of the U.S.

Indiana Bob: "Mike, did you spec that piece out to .05 inches?"
Mike from NYC: "Damn straight...peace out in da oh-five, bitches!" <<
Top   #11
Abrac  Abrac is offline
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I started trying to following your thread from the beginning, but to be honest I have no idea what your point is. No disrespect intended, just saying. By the way, what is the point. If you could perhaps explain it maybe you could could get some relevant feedback.
Top   #12
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gregory  gregory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
I started trying to following your thread from the beginning, but to be honest I have no idea what your point is. No disrespect intended, just saying. By the way, what is the point. If you could perhaps explain it maybe you could could get some relevant feedback.
What he said - I have been following this thread too, and I can't understand the point either. Is this simply that you are building a "model" VS on wood and we get to watch ? Or is there some deeper meaning that totally escapes me ?
Top   #13
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Hello Abrac - glad to meet you!

I've read some of your posts around here and got the impression that you can be specific - so I'll ask you to do me the favor here too.

1. You talk about what exactly in your post?
2. You did follow this thread/topic about the supposed 3rd dimension of the deck of the 74 survivors and you do not understand what the consequences of that supposed (due to the available measurements solitaire & stacked) assumed measurements would/should be?

3. My excuses if I was not clear about the"point" (as you refer to my intention I deem?). I thought I did do that with the JPGs I made available because I myself am a visual artist (painter you could call me) and being. Not all people are of course. Some go by touch or being touched. So I added some words ("thought explanations" I would call them in MY mind!) that I thought made the mind behind clear too.

So if you care to be more clear to me I will try to be more clear with you!

Adrian
Top   #14
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Thanks for posting gregory!

It seems that we really have dug up some problem here that totally escaped my foresight.

May I bother you to answer please the same questions for me as I put them before Abrac?

I will reply to both of your answers in 1 post - only if that would be OK of course?

Adrian
Top   #15
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gregory  gregory is offline
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Actually - clearly I don't get it - so I'll pass. Thanks anyway.
Top   #16
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Thanks for interest gregory.
Thanks for your time.

Sorry

Adrian
Top   #17
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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I just replied in the sibling-topic on TH to another contributor and thought parts from that answer could be helping with understanding here too (4th page there).

>> Why is it that you insist that only the PMB is at issue here? <<

Because as you can see the evidential data are not publicly availabe and very specific for every sole deck.
The caliper of the PMB "cards" (who were obviously none because they were not made for a card play at the TABLE.) was not known to anyone because nobody measured it!

The caliper alone (not only my assumption but the real measured and confirmed caliper) would have made it impossible to use them in any regular "card play fashion".

The caliper wasn't at ANY time questioned and all people who care about Tarot hear/read everywhere that the PMB "cards" were handmade and used for gaming at a table (like I hear even Mr. Voelkle assuming that the people at the fresco in the Palazzo Borromeo do just that: PLAY with those treasures in a game with cards AT a table).

I did point out in the other thread (Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret > the exact place I don't know at the moment - but I can look!) that those persons are OBSERVING the "cards" and the WALL to find the right "card" for the next correct place in the already achieved pattern on the WALL on the thereat painted kilim structure with the Tarotée-Crossings - the net of lines who are regarded the playground of the 16 gods.

They were made ONLY for ONE specific "game" at the WALL of a room that had to have AT LEAST 10 feet high walls - what could be found only in the house of a very rich person.
To get this "game" on a regular big table - say in a tavern - the TdM (for instance) was invented. It got evolved and the nails were not needed anymore (because of the structure of TdM card 1/3 - the ladder).

I tried to make some readers familiar with the IDEA that decoding today is a scientific thing with certain requirements that can be taught and studied to an end. This code we are talking about here (with the caliper too) was known originally only to the Visconti family (and later the Sforza) who were in partly posession of a "dead" fragment since Ottone declared to have captured a "beast" and swore >> I will not violate the Snake's uses << when he was Archbishop of Milan.

Most of those things I've written already and much more. It seems to be my fault though to have not made myself clear enough. Please ask some specific questions!

I explained already that to my knowledge only the handmade Visconti-Sforza "cards" bear that kilim structure that is mirrored in the Tarotée - THAT was the whole point of the Tarotée-Thread... (...)

(...)... So I hope you understand that I really do not mean to be rude here - but what is the point of posting pictures and words when they are not used for following posts and/or replies.

I think I explained it here now in a sufficient way that and why the 74 survivors are the only possible subject for THIS topic. When they would be understood completely - and only then - it would be possible to COMPARE them with other "luxury cards (who - by the way LACK the substantial pattern to be READ - as an unbound book)". That was one of the premises of the Tarotée-Thread (...) and THIS thread (...) was announced as a prequel to that former thread.

I hope that helps?

Adrian
Top   #18
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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Above I said:

>> I did point out in the other thread (Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret > the exact place I don't know at the moment - but I can look!) that those persons are OBSERVING the "cards" and the WALL to find the right "card" for the next correct place in the already achieved pattern on the WALL on the thereat painted kilim structure with the Tarotée-Crossings - the net of lines who are regarded the playground of the 16 gods. <<

Now I did look and I found the exact place: on the 3rd page in the 4th post Mary Greer brought a photo of the Palazzo Borromeo in Milan which she visited in 2000 or so and the inside fresco of the "players" was mentioned too.

I made 2 JPGs to visualize for interested readers that the fresco there was just another version of the KILIM and the Tarotée on the TdM card backs.









And here is proof that I was not fantasizing about the intended optical effect. You just have to step a few steps back and widen your scope - like every researcher should do who believes still that the roots & sources of TAROT can be found in the catholic minds of the aristocracy of Milan or Italy.







This pic I stole from Rafaël (and this was his text there - from 19-03-2009):

>> Chosson - Payen card backs

Is there a direct link between Chosson and Payen, since they both use the same card back pattern?
Here's the Payen 1735 and the Payen 1760 from the Cary Yale collection: <<

The "Chosson" he mentions and does not show here you can find in my Thread-PDF for the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" topic at TH on the 2nd page.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...=101310&page=2







And I did use it there (7th post from the top):

http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewto...=1044&start=70

And this is the KILIM on the PMB "cards" made more visual. It is from the PDF I made as a precursor for the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" topic on TH.
Ready for watching and reading and free download (after free registration of course) on scribd for your pleasure and convenience:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/241968716/...ry-dot-com-pdf







At that time of our thereat topic it wasn't clear what was written in the deco pattern on the outside wall - but it should be the "stemma" of the Borromeo family:







...what translates to "Humilitas" which is > humility. The complete motto instead was: "Humilitas Nemini" what can be loosely translated to: "Nobody's Servant".

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borromeo



And this was my original comment on the purpose and theme of the fresco that is known under the name "Playing with tarot cards, scene from the Games cycle, ca 1445-1450, fresco, Palazzo Borromeo, Milan, Lombardy, Italy, 15th century"...

(Have a look here at a horrible example of www "culture"







>> The fresco shows (in my opinion of course) 5 high ranking friends of the family (the man on the right could be a cleric. A cardinal maybe with his big round hat.) OBSERVING the cards before they start to play. The tree in the background could be a hint to that. And the wall where the cards will be placed would be in the viewing direction of the lady in the middle of the scene. <<

Please ask when I left something out here

Adrian
Top   #19
Adrian Goldwetter  Adrian Goldwetter is offline
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This is the KILIM pattern spread over a hypothetic wall:

Cropped screen-shot from TRUE TAROT on scribd (the linked source I used to come to these conclusions and more about which you can read on TH.) page 219/215:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/68581697/TRUE-TAROT







This is what the Great Secrets of the PMB Visconti-Sforza Tarot "cards" should look like on their nails at that wall (8th page 3rd post) - thereat with explanations and more details and JPGs:

http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewto...=1044&start=70







This is the complete structure with 78 TdM wildcards on a big table.
About 150 x 150 cm should do and I used the "Popess" to hint at the scripture in her lap from where the first layer of meaning and the names and succession of the TdM was taken.
The scripture itself is here at the 1st page hinted at too with the SETTING sun and "The Night Journey" - but you must make sure that your copy>paste feature performs the right way
I used it in the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" topic on TH on the 1st page in an announced edition:







The purpose of this structure is explained throughout the thread many times and other things. Since The PMB "cards" are much bigger they were not fully operational at a table. You wouldn't have been able to reach where you had to without disturbing the structure. So at least a 10 feet high wall was required to "play" properly.

The TdM cards have a built in feature that allows to make use of a "ladder" that enables you to build this structure on a table without to much difficulties. The LADDER is explained and referred to from the Thread-PDF on several times throughout the thread on TH

Since it should be SUNday right now there is a lot of time to mess around with

Adrian
Top   #20




 

 


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