Myers Briggs Types and the Court Cards

JSNYC

Aerin said:
The person who gave me the example had advanced training so I had no reason to doubt them. Re-reading though I think I meant values based not emotions, although crossing values usually raises very strong emotions so....

I come as INFP very consistently, especially since I was told not to answer based on how I act at work but rather how I want to act. One of the best questions IMO is "If you had to be one way for the rest of your life, what would it be?'
Yes... that is why I said I needed to qualify that statement because you obviously understand the function types very well. I really liked your first post, I think playing with the types like that is a very good way to understand and apply them. Thus my disagreement was a little more technical that substantial. And I do agree with the statement in your second post. Feeling absolutely tends to be more values or principle based. I created a post explaining (although very superficially) how I view the function types.

Click here to view the thread: Jungian Function Types and the Tarot

I will just make one more point quickly, and then I will leave further discussion of this for another thread. A well-developed person who is not very emotional, will appear no more emotional whether they are a Thinking person or a Feeling person. Emotions and feelings are totally separate from the Feeling function. Feeling people simply tend to be more affected by emotions, they are not necessarily more emotional. So a Feeling person won't necessarily, and certainly won't automatically arrive at different conclusions than a thinking person, but they will generally arrive at those conclusions in different ways or for different reasons.

You essentially accused me and my thinking brethren of being heartless, and cold-hearted schmucks! Sending everyone to jail with no regard for the circumstances! :D I may sometimes appear cold and uncaring to people that don't know me, but I am really anything but.

Just like your statement about wanting to "biff" people who think you can't like math, because not all Feelers don't like, or are not good at math. In the same way, many emotional people are Feeling people, and extremely, visibly emotional people are often Feeling people, but just because a person is a Feeling person does not automatically make them emotional.

I am a dominate Thinker and I have quite strong emotions, but no one would ever call me an emotional person. (A person that doesn't have emotions maybe, but certainly not emotional! :) )

And since you understand this quite well and you are a Feeler, I am always open and very interested in your feeling thoughts! (They stimulate and tickle my thinking thoughts! :D )
 

Nevada

Great thread. I can't really go in depth right now, wish I could. But you might be interested in two writings. One is a book titled Discovering Your Self Through the Tarot, A Jungian Guide to Archetypes & Personality by Rose Gwain. The book doesn't entirely apply to this discussion, but I liked what she did in assigning a suit to each of the four functions:

Cups or Water to Intuition
Wands or Fire to Feeling
Pentacles or Earth to Sensing
Swords or Air to Thinking

Interesting book, though I don't agree with everything she says.

I also got loads of insight from an article by John Beebe on his eight-function model, which can be found in PDF here:

http://www.jungatlanta.com/articles/winter08-evolving-the-eight-function-model.pdf

I especially like his use of archetypes corresponding to each of eight rather than four functions (dividing the four into conscious and unconscious manifestations). I think that particular model agrees to some degree with your use of the Pages (Puer/Puella), JSNYC, if I read correctly.

I've only scratched the surface of this and my study of Jung so far, but I'm enjoying this and JSNYC's later thread on Jungian Function Types and the Tarot - to which the linked article may better apply. I'll likely post there too in a few days, but I'm having a tooth out tomorrow, so I don't know if I'll be up to snuff for that right away. :)

Nevada - INFP
 

zephyr_heart

Hi, everyone. Been reading this thread and makes me ask, does this configuration applicable to any kinds of deck? Because as far as we all know, Thoth use Princess instead of Page/Knave.
 

Nevada

zephyr_heart said:
Hi, everyone. Been reading this thread and makes me ask, does this configuration applicable to any kinds of deck? Because as far as we all know, Thoth use Princess instead of Page/Knave.
I'm not sure why that should make a difference. I'm a long-time Thoth user, and I view all the court cards (in every deck) as non-gender specific, in that we each contain all their qualities. Every male has a feminine side and every female a masculine side, and we each contain a youthful and an elder side as well - all very much a part of the Jungian view.
 

JSNYC

zephyr_heart said:
Hi, everyone. Been reading this thread and makes me ask, does this configuration applicable to any kinds of deck? Because as far as we all know, Thoth use Princess instead of Page/Knave.
Actually, I do feel like the Thoth is a little different...

But the same basic principles apply, as Nevada mentioned.
 

Teheuti

Here's Jung's short description for the functions, written late in life for Man and His Symbols. He modified and refined his thoughts on the subject often.

* Sensation tells you that something exists (through the senses).
* Thinking tells you what it is (its definition).
* Feeling tells you whether it is agreeable or not (its value).
* Intuition tells you whence it comes and where it is going (its possibilities).

Feeling is subjective and sentimental, telling us whether something "feels good" or "feels bad." Like when you say, "He doesn't feel to me like a good person."

Intuition is not about psychic ability but is more oriented to the future and a perception of what is possible and, thus, to goal setting. It perceives patterns that arise from seemingly disparate bits of information and data. It also has been likened to the Choleric Temperament.

Noga Arikha's book Passions and Tempers: A History of the Humours (2007) describes Choleric as:

* element: fire
* qualities: hot and dry
* color: yellow
* taste: bitter
* season: summer
* time of day: midday
* body organ: spleen
* period of life: youth
* signs: Aries, Leo, Sagittarius
* planet: Mars

(Be aware that the temperaments have been seen differently throughout history. For instance, Galen's melancholic humor is far more Saturnine and Earthy than the modern definition of melancholy.)
 

margi

This is so weird that I found this thread....I just took this test a week ago at the urging of a counselor that my son take the test to give him some career ideas...so we all took it and I came up as INFP Healer...I always show up as the Queen of Cups.

Very interesting and very cool!

margi
 

cardlady22

I'm reading older threads looking to see if anyone has a list of authors (or links to websites) who have written about the 16 personality types. I'd like to gather the various "titles" for each to compare.
 

Teheuti

My book Understanding the Tarot Court gives several different systems for aligning the Court Cards with the MBTI. One issue you have to resolve when you do this is whether you are going to follow how traditional meanings of the cards align with the Courts or if you are going to go with a 'logical' system—like, all Queens and Pages are Intraverts, etc.

You can find lots of descriptions of the types on the net, although not all authors see the types in exactly the same way. The system tends to get more confusing as you look into it, but if you keep working with it, at some point there's an aha! and suddenly it makes sense.
 

JSNYC

I'm reading older threads looking to see if anyone has a list of authors (or links to websites) who have written about the 16 personality types. I'd like to gather the various "titles" for each to compare.
David Keirsey's "personality types" are proprietary, they are only found in his book, Please Understand me. (Also here: www.keirsey.com) That is where a lot of the "definition" of the personality types comes from. The labels or what I thought you meant by "titles" such as "Rational" and "Mastermind" and "Artisan", etc. come from David Keirsey.

Keirsey's system is based on the MBTI or the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. Myers and Briggs are the one's that actually created the 16 (still somewhat abstract) personality types, INTJ, ESFP, ISFJ, etc. MBTI "personality types" are psychological profiles meant to be used within the profession of psychology, whereas Keirsey's "personality types" is a (defined) system created based on the MTBI types, although based in psychology. Keirsey provides a lot of speculative definition simply based on observation. The reason his book is so popular is that the system he created works so well and it gives more "personality" to the personality types.

Hence, I would say the best way to understand the "personalities" of the personality types would be to read Keirsey's book. To try to get an understanding of the personality types proposed by MBTI is more difficult because it is mainly psychological papers and such, not written for "general" consumption and thus generally is not "completely defined". Or it could be another mass-market book that simply attempted to do what Keirsey did.

The (abstract) “system” of the personality types has been defined, but what they actually mean, their exact definition and how to use them is still very much undefined. Keirsey is really the only one that has provided labels for the types, although everyone that writes about them has their own "personal" labels. ;)