RWS Temperance Sun & Crown transposition

Cara Jackson

Hello, does anyone know why these two symbols ahve been 'swapped' in position? I'm thinking that the sun on the 3rd eye represents 3rd eye open, new vision and awareness on life, with the crown where the sun should be as higher knowledge and 8th chakra development? Any better info anyone? thanks Cara
 

Grigori

It's a qabalah reference. In the Golden Dawn system, Temperance (attributed to Sagittarius, the sign about connection to God) is part of the "middle pillar", or the path from Earth (at the bottom) to deity/godhead at the top. There are 4 stops along the path, Earth at the bottom, Moon above that, Sun above the Moon and Kether (meaning Crown) at the top.

That path from Earth to Crown is shown on the Temperance card in the RWS deck. The angel (Sagittarius, the arrow) starts on the Earth, has a foot in the water (Moon) and ascends via the Sun to the Crown (see the path in the card).
 

brightcrazystar

What "crown" are you talking about?

If you mean The Solar Disk on his head. Resh is the letter of the sun, Resh means "Head." "The Head" is a name of the Macrocosm, "The Feet" is a name of the Microcosm. The Angel is Micropropus, the merger of the world of Self and the World of Other - total consciousness of self as a reciever of a divine message of which every event of your life that "was, is, and is to come" can understood to be but a small part - a single note in the orchestration of the powers of your being. This "was, is, is to come" is the translation of YHVH, the four letter name which adorns the breast of the Angel, in Hebrew.

Pisces Rules the Feet. By the immersion of the Piscean offering into the Spring which recieves the light of the stars, (the offering of the fish for the masses, which is pinnacle to human religon even before Christianity's establishment, but most commonly revered now as the descent of Jeshuah), The Fires of Shin have been Tempered, to Orange of Sol, not Red of Mars, so the Moon and the Sun marry to each other. No more human sacrifice is necessary, indeed no offering at all! Water of life can be transmuted from cup to cup, from water, to wine, to blood.

That is why this card, when properly seen, combines, The Moon and Judgement, The Lovers and the Star. The Lovers and The Star are the path on the tree that feed from Mercy and Severity into The Sphere of the Sun. The Moon and Judgement feed from Mercy and Severity into the Sphere of Earth. Thus this card means a "reconciling of mercy and severity, as a return to a balanced course of action."
 

KariRoad

cult vs clarity

Grigori said:
It's a qabalah reference. In the Golden Dawn system, Temperance (attributed to Sagittarius...
Tarot is not 'qabalah' even in the 'Golden Dawn' system, and equally, Kabbalah is not Tarot ever or at all.
Isn't it time to accept this and make it clear to AT participants?

XIV Temperance is Letter 14 Scorpio. Visualise: Ophiuchus!
 

Grigori

KariRoad said:
Tarot is not 'qabalah' even in the 'Golden Dawn' system, and equally, Kabbalah is not Tarot ever or at all.
Isn't it time to accept this and make it clear to AT participants?

XIV Temperance is Letter 14 Scorpio. Visualise: Ophiuchus!

This would be your personal preference, but is directly at odds with the intention of the creators of the decks we're discussing and is completely incorrect from that perspective. Temperance may well be attributed to Scorpio for some tarot decks and users, but is an absurd suggestion for the RWS, even with the illusion that the cards and letters were seen seperately. I'd appreciate it if is clear to AT's participants that your criticisms are a personal issue and at odds with the intent of the decks creators and in truth off topic to the discussion here.

BrightCrazyStar, it's the crown in the sky we're referring to, at the place where the sun should be illustrated.
 

Abrac

I don't see anything as being swapped. Judging from The Pictorial Key, the crown represents the "Secret" at the end of the road. It's only "seen vaguely" because its full revelation isn't possible while a person is in a state of incarnation. I agree the sun represents a new kind of awareness, a spiritual enlightenment.
 

brightcrazystar

[Edit: I am sorry if this sounds more rude than I intended. I just read it back, and I am not trying to say Etteila(sp?) is wrong, but it is clear this deck devises, symbolically from many decks. Esoterically those influences are combined to represent the Golden Dawn attributions, which are based on Levi, who was a chief influence of the G.D. and Waite.)


KariRoad said:
Tarot is not 'qabalah' even in the 'Golden Dawn' system, and equally, Kabbalah is not Tarot ever or at all.
Isn't it time to accept this and make it clear to AT participants?

XIV Temperance is Letter 14 Scorpio. Visualise: Ophiuchus!

Tarot is FULL of Qabala.
Note - "Qabala" is a hebrew word which just means "Oral Tradition."

And the Christian architects of this Tarot Deck were following esoteric keys that were confidential to a Order that employed heavy amounts of Christian Mysticism and Qabala, as well as Jewish Mysticism.

The Daughter of the Reconcilers: the Bringer-Forth of life is the name of this card. It shows what happened clearly. This being raised forth the dead king on whom the sun set on The Death Card - with the power shown on the Card Judgement.

Scorpio "Death" yields to the Fire of Sagittarius "Temperance" in the Zodiac, and in Tarot.

If that don't sound like Christian mythos, as emblematic of Ma'at, in her place in the center of the Temple of the Neophyte, might want to study the Golden Dawn a bit more. You know, the organization Waite made MORE Christian and MORE Qabalistic?

"The Sun hath arisen; The King is dead, long live the King!"
 

brightcrazystar

Abrac said:
I don't see anything as being swapped. Judging from The Pictorial Key, the crown represents the "Secret" at the end of the road. It's only "seen vaguely" because its full revelation isn't possible while a person is in a state of incarnation. I agree the sun represents a new kind of awareness, a spiritual enlightenment.

Thank's Grigori, btw. I was looking on the Angel for a Crown I missed for like 20 years lol. (and of course I was looking in the heart region, which is where I would guess they thought it was "misplaced" and needed to be swtiched or something.)

The Rising Sun is the Crown of Creation, and the King who died in "Death" Scorpio, which he experiences as "The Hanged Man" is now manifested as the Light of the World. This is the key to immortality, resurrection - not escaping death forever. Mutable Pisces "The Moon" which squares Sagittarius, displayed in this card, shows the same landscape of the road where the sun rises. Pisces trines that image in Scorpio, for both are water signs.
 

re-pete-a

Rider Waite Smith Temperance

One foot is in the water , one on a larger rock.
Mind(water) and solid rock (foundation) Understanding of the firmament(underfoot) Bare footed meaning not of this material world .

Water in the chalices (challenges of the mind and heart)Going from situation to situation(experiences by deeds) (left to right hand). leading to the squaring of the heart (square on chest) via an understanding of the trinity(triangle on chest not necessarily the known religious version) lending to a golden mind (circle with dot in middle indicating GOLD and The UNMANIFESTED CREATIVE POTENTIAL (Thoughts). Which are necessary to travel the way (Gold, pure) up the mountainous path( a hard road) of hearts desires( mountains) to attain the Golden knowledge of understanding. which resides above the earth plane (crown above mountains)

The person is wearing white which denotes purity of soul.
There's more but I don't have the card in front of me.

That's the understandings attained via my own personal interpretations.

The Kaballah gives way to the Indian Vedas as far as antiquity is concerned. It's said that the Kaballah came from India originally.
 

re-pete-a

Cara Jackson said:
Hello, does anyone know why these two symbols ahve been 'swapped' in position? I'm thinking that the sun on the 3rd eye represents 3rd eye open, new vision and awareness on life, with the crown where the sun should be as higher knowledge and 8th chakra development? Any better info anyone? thanks Cara

The previous post info was posted from an experiential look at the "Temperance" card and is my opinion only.