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Thoth, Tree of Life, and The Star

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
It's also interesting to note that Kenneth Grant claims that the sephira Daath is the place of entrance to the reverse side of the Tree of Life. It is the "Window" into the subconscious (The Moon).
interesting.
i've always thought of Da'ath as a sort of 'umbilical cord' to the Qlippoth.

and only slightly off topic (since we're discussing relative geometry)...

http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/dpl...s/olive_e.html



(and i know you guys are probably thinking "is this the only bookmark he has?" lol)
Top   #21
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Point taken....

The only reason I asked was that if there are alternative interpretations of the Kabbalah, why is GD the norm. The answer of course is due to western culture's inherent ethnocentricity. And that's fine, from a western point of view.

And yes I realise we are talking about Tarot here, and its superimposition on the pre-existent Kabbalistic system.

But I have a particular fetish for comparative studies - yes, I am a card-carrying post-structuralist - and believe it to be quite a fine way to truly understand the tarot thank you very much. The Tarot is a text after all, and I feel subject equally to literary and art criticisms.
As such I need to get to the bottom of why one interpretative system is looked on as being 'the norm', over any other valid system.

And I thank Kwaw for his brief contribution (or was that in the other thread...?)

But seriously, can we combine the two threads and just make this the Study Group thread for The Star - both have had fantastic and valid discussions on the nature of this card. The whole Emperor/Star/Lust/Adjustment debacle is a very important part of what this card in the context of Crowley's Book of Thoth deck is all about.

So, hey Moderator - please please please can we somehow combine the two threads and keep going with this?
Top   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windhorse
please can we somehow combine the two threads and keep going with this?
Keep going where?
Top   #23
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keep going ga-ga.....

Given that Golden Dawn sensibilities were over 100 years ago, perhaps it is time we adapt them for the 21st century - or let them go altogether?

Certainly they were around in a historical period which we (from hindsight - o! what a wonderful sight is hindsight! LOL) refer to as the 'Modernist' era; whislt we are today firmly ensconced in what is called 'Post-Modernist', where the singular Truth has shattered into billions and trillions of little pieces, too many to pick them all up and try and reconstruct it all. So let's just accept the many truths, and in some weird quantum-physics kind of way, try instead to look at the relationship between the truths and try and come up with a different answer....

Don't know....

....I think I like the Star back down the bottom! The Emperor isn't necessarily about horrible patriarchal God pinning us down from above. It is just as much about setting our boundaries, becoming our own Masters. I liken it more to the discipline one learns from doing traditional martial arts, where you develop the self-regulation to obey your own commands, as opposed to the kind of externally-directed discipline learnt in the army, where you develop only the ability to take orders from someone else, and do nothing for yourself.

Its kinda like taking personal responsibility. EG: if you trip over a lead on the floor, do you pick yourself up and remind yourself to pay attention where you're walking, or blame everyone around you and sue them in court?

That is the Emperor who lives on path 15, IMHO.
Whereas the Star is the bridge between our unconscious and our emotions.... that ability to channel the nergy required to manifest our wishes (remember, Aquarius is the Channel - that is why the 'water-pourer' is an Air sign...)
Top   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windhorse
The Emperor isn't necessarily about horrible patriarchal God pinning us down from above. It is just as much about setting our boundaries, becoming our own Masters. I liken it more to the discipline one learns from doing traditional martial arts, where you develop the self-regulation to obey your own commands, as opposed to the kind of externally-directed discipline learnt in the army, where you develop only the ability to take orders from someone else, and do nothing for yourself.
That's fine as a description of the Emperor outside of the context of the Tree of Life. But what does any of the above have to do with the 15th Path and the relationship between Chokmah and Tiphareth. How does the Cosmic Will of Chokmah influence the sephira Tiphareth via the Emperor?

Bear in mind that the 15th Path is still way above the sphere of the personality.
Top   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
That's fine as a description of the Emperor outside of the context of the Tree of Life. But what does any of the above have to do with the 15th Path and the relationship between Chokmah and Tiphareth. How does the Cosmic Will of Chokmah influence the sephira Tiphareth via the Emperor?

Bear in mind that the 15th Path is still way above the sphere of the personality.
Yup, context is everything in this game. Simply put, The Emperor on the 15th path represents the transmission of energy and inspiration (in your own words Aeon418, Ha = "breath") from the Divine Will into the heart of the psyche. It is how the Self "hears" God's Will. [The Sephiroth from Chesed to Yesod is the human microcosm or psyche. We all agree on THAT don't we?]
Top   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcimer
Yup, context is everything in this game. Simply put, The Emperor on the 15th path represents the transmission of energy and inspiration (in your own words Aeon418, Ha = "breath") from the Divine Will into the heart of the psyche. It is how the Self "hears" God's Will.
I have no problem with the "Ha = breath" bit bacause I agree that Ha/Heh corresponds to the 15th path anyway. We are all agreed on that. (Wonders never cease. ) I just don't agree that the inspiration comes to us via the Emperor.

*sticks fingers in ears* LA-LA-LA-LA-LAAA....
Top   #27
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I REALLY wish I'd called it something else


Quote:
Originally Posted by Windhorse
can we somehow combine the two threads and keep going with this?
Windhorse dude! This thread is not about The Star, although it is becoming that way.

I started this thread to put over what I believe to be evidence that the Tarot majors - in particular the Thoth - were drawn to be seen on the sephiroth as well as the paths.
Originally The Star part of this debate was about its possible position in Daath instead of Chesed, i.e. can it swap places with The Empress instead of The Emperor.
In fact, if the cards are arranged as I described in post #1 The Star and The Emperor both reside in Chesed.

Discussions about the The Star have a better home in Archer1's thread "The Star Card". I think its time we kept it there.
Top   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
I have no problem with the "Ha = breath" bit bacause I agree that Ha/Heh corresponds to the 15th path anyway. We are all agreed on that. (Wonders never cease. ) I just don't agree that the inspiration comes to us via the Emperor.

*sticks fingers in ears* LA-LA-LA-LA-LAAA....
Heh, heh, heh
Top   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
I have no problem with the "Ha = breath" bit bacause I agree that Ha/Heh corresponds to the 15th path anyway. We are all agreed on that. (Wonders never cease. ) I just don't agree that the inspiration comes to us via the Emperor.

*sticks fingers in ears* LA-LA-LA-LA-LAAA....
LOL
Yes, but 'Heh' corresponds with the astrological sign of Aries.
And the Emperor clearly shows ram-type arian symbolism.
So how can the Star be related to Aries?

This is getting to be like a school yard argument... "no it isn't!" ... "yes it is!"... "no it isn't!"... "yes it is!"... and so on and so on, ad infinitum....

Top   #30




 


 


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